[Senate Hearing 107-436]
[From the U.S. Government Printing Office]
S. Hrg. 107-436
NOMINATION HEARING FOR JOSEPH JWU-SHAN JEN AND JAMES R. MOSELEY
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE,
NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
JULY 12, 2001
__________
Printed for the use of the
Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.agriculture.senate.gov
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COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY
TOM HARKIN, Iowa, Chairman
PATRICK J. LEAHY, Vermont RICHARD G. LUGAR, Indiana
KENT CONRAD, North Dakota JESSE HELMS, North Carolina
THOMAS A. DASCHLE, South Dakota THAD COCHRAN, Mississippi
MAX BAUCUS, Montana MITCH McCONNELL, Kentucky
BLANCHE L. LINCOLN, Arkansas PAT ROBERTS, Kansas
ZELL MILLER, Georgia PETER G. FITZGERALD, Illinois
DEBBIE A. STABENOW, Michigan CRAIG THOMAS, Wyoming
BEN NELSON, Nebraska WAYNE ALLARD, Colorado
MARK DAYTON, Minnesota TIM HUTCHINSON, Arkansas
PAUL DAVID WELLSTONE, Minnesota MICHEAL D. CRAPO, Idaho
Mark Halverson, Staff Director
Robert E. Sturm, Chief Clerk
David L. Johnson, Chief Counsel
Keith Luse,Staff Director for the Minority
(ii)
C O N T E N T S
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Page
Hearing(s):
Nomination for James R. Moseley to be Deputy Secretary, U.S.
Department of Agriculture and Joseph Jwu-shan Jen to be
Undersecretary of
Agriculture for Research, Education, and Economics............. 01
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Thursday, July 12, 2001
STATEMENTS PRESENTED BY SENATORS
Harkin, Hon. Tom, a U.S. Senator from Iowa, Chairman, Committee
on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry........................ 01
Lugar, Hon. Richard G., a U.S. Senator from Indiana, Ranking
Member, Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry...... 05
Buyer, Hon. Steve, a Representative in Congress from Indiana..... 06
Kerns, Hon. Brian, a Representative in Congress from Indiana..... 06
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WITNESSES
Jen, Joseph Jwu-shan, of California, to be Undersecretary of
Agriculture for Research, Education and Economics.............. 02
Moseley, James R., of Indiana, to be Deputy Secretary, U.S.
Department of Agricultur....................................... 08
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APPENDIX
Prepared Statements:
Jen, Joseph Jwu-shan........................................ 22
Moseley, James R............................................. 24
Document(s) Submitted for the Record:
Allard, Hon. Wayne........................................... 28
Jen, Joseph Jwu-shan, Biography............................. 30
Moseley, James R., Biography................................. 57
Questions and Answers:
Conrad, Hon. Kent............................................ 79
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NOMINATION HEARING: JOSEPH JWU-SHAN JEN AND JAMES R. MOSELEY
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THURSDAY, JULY 12, 2001
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition and Forestry,
Washington, DC.
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 8:37 a.m., in
room SR-328-A, Russell Senate Office Building, Hon. Thomas
Harkin, [Chairman of the Committee], presiding.
Present or submitting a statement: Senators Harkin, Dayton,
Lugar, Roberts, Allard and Crapo.
STATEMENT OF HON. THOMAS HARKIN, A U.S. SENATOR FROM IOWA,
CHAIRMAN, COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY
The Chairman. The Senate Agriculture, Nutrition and
Forestry Committee will come to order.
Today, we are continuing our series of hearings on the next
Farm bill. Before we do that however, we are going to turn to
two nominations: the nomination of Dr. Joseph J. Jen to be
USDA's Undersecretary for Research, Education and Economics and
the nomination of Mr. James Moseley to be Deputy Secretary at
the Department of Agriculture. I would ask both nominees to
stand and raise your right hand and be sworn in.
Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to
provide is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the
truth, so help you God?
Mr. Jen. Yes.
Mr. Moseley. Yes.
The Chairman. Please be seated, and I would ask both of
you, do you agree that you will appear before any duly
constituted committee of Congress if asked to appear?
Mr. Jen. Yes, sir.
Mr. Moseley. Yes.
The Chairman. Thank you very much.
Today, at first, we will be considering the nomination of
Dr. Joseph J. Jen to be USDA's Undersecretary for Research,
Education and Economics. Dr. Jen is currently dean of the
College of Agriculture at California Polytechnic State
University and has a long and distinguished career in
agricultural research, both in the private and the public
sector. He has published more than 60 scientific articles and
published two books. These research achievements led Dr. Jen to
be elected a fellow of the Institute of Food Technologists in
1992. This is a very high honor, as there are only about 100
such fellows worldwide.
Clearly, there are many exciting and promising developments
and possibilities in agricultural research. I look forward to
working with you, Dr. Jen, in the important position for which
you are nominated. Dr. Jen, I would also like to recognize your
wife, Salina Jen, and your brother, James Jen, whom I
understand are here in the audience someplace behind you there,
and we welcome you to the committee. Thank you very much both
for being here.
Before I turn to you, Dr. Jen, for your statement, I would
first like to recognize on my left, the Senator from Kansas,
Senator Roberts, if he has any opening statement or----
Senator Roberts. No, sir, I think we ought to expedite the
process. Thank you. We have two excellent nominees.
The Chairman. Yes, we do. We have two excellent nominees.
Senator Dayton.
Senator Dayton. I second the sentiments.
The Chairman. Thank you very much.
Well, Dr. Jen, welcome to the committee. Congratulations on
your selection, and the floor is yours. Please proceed as you
so desire.
STATEMENT OF JOSEPH JWU-SHAN JEN, OF CALIFORNIA, TO BE
UNDERSECRETARY OF AGRICULTURE FOR RESEARCH, EDUCATION AND
ECONOMICS.
Mr. Jen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Could I also please ask
the record to show that my sister, Jennice Sih is also here?
The Chairman. Well, I am sorry, I missed her.
Mr. Jen. She is here from Pennsylvania.
The Chairman. Well, we welcome you. Thank you very much for
being here. Thank you.
Mr. Jen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and distinguished members
of the committee. I am honored to appear before you this
morning. I am grateful to President Bush and Secretary Ann
Veneman for nominating me for the Undersecretary of Agriculture
position. I was born in mainland China and grew up in Taiwan. I
came to this country as a graduate student. When my wife,
Salina, and I were married, we had a total of $48 to start our
family.
Only in the United States can someone like me be given the
chance to serve this country in this capacity. If you choose to
confirm me, I pledge to you that I will do my very best to
serve this country. My professional career involved serving at
three land grant institutions: Clemson, Michigan State and the
University of Georgia; one private enterprise, the Campbell
Soup Company; and then, the largest non-land grant agriculture
program at Cal Poly.
My areas of research expertise are in the post-harvest
handling of fresh fruits and vegetables, food texture and
biotechnology. I am active in the scientific professional
society and have served on the California State Board of Food
and Agriculture since 1997.
If confirmed, my biggest challenge of the office is the
diverse responsibilities of the REE mission areas and the
balance among the three elements carried in its name. I feel
that I know the three elements of research, education and
economics well, and my 20 years of experience in administration
have prepared me to carry out the management of REE. My
philosophy has always been to focus on selective strategic
issues and to do a test very well or not do it at all.
Agricultural research and education are key to building a
knowledge reservoir and transfer of applied technology.
Economic and statistical analysis provide the data base and
background information essential for key policy decisions. With
the growing global competition in agriculture and consumer
demand for instant knowledge, the REE mission area is faced
with critical choices in performing many important tasks with a
limited budget. If confirmed, I look forward to working with
members of this committee on prioritizing the many tasks and
challenges facing REE.
Thank you again for this opportunity to consider me for
this highly honored position.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Jen can be found in the
appendix on page 22.]
The Chairman. Dr. Jen, thank you very much for all that you
have done in agriculture. As a first-generation American
myself, I am glad you are here, and I am glad you are coming
into this position. We need your expertise and your background
vitally, at this important point where we are especially as it
relates to plant and animal genomics. USDA participates in
various efforts, but in my own personal view, it has yet to
provide any true leadership for the plant, animal and microbial
communities by investing in genomics research at a level that
reflects the true value of agriculturally important organisms
from economic, scientific and biomedical standpoints.
USDA's support for plant genomics is a pittance compared to
the National Science Foundation, and funding is virtually
nonexistent for genomics research in animals, plant pathogens
and animal pathogens. I believe it is time for the USDA to step
up to the plate and ensure that agriculture participates fully
in the genomics revolution by providing significant funding for
genomics research at the ARS and at the cooperative state
research, education and extension services.
If I might ask as a general question what steps you might
envision taking to elevate USDA's role and commitment in plant,
animal and microbial genomics.
Mr. Jen. Well, Chairman, you touched an area I did have a
little bit of expertise in myself.
The Chairman. That is why I asked it.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Jen. In that I have felt for many years that the
research in USDA in this area has not been emphasized and
actually opened the door for some of the private companies to
forge ahead on some of the research in this. In fact, I think,
like the roundup soybean: if it was discovered by the
scientists from Iowa State University, I think it would have a
lot more credibility than its being discovered now by Monsanto
Company. I think it is an example that sometimes, we need to
put funding in the long-term research, because 10 or 20 years
ago, biotechnology research was not emphasized, and there was
not the good planning of probably looking into the future.
I think what I would like to do is that hopefully, with my
experience, we can do a little bit of catch-up in the next few
years.
The Chairman. Well, I sure hope so. I serve on another
committee that has been involved in the Human Genome Project at
NIH beginning back in 1992. We have made great progress there,
but there is a whole new realm of knowledge to be gained from
plant genomics and animal genomics which we just have not
really pushed ahead on. I hope that we can now get the
Department of Agriculture moving more aggressively in that
area, so I welcome your interest, and I know your background in
that area, and that is why I wanted to ask the question.
One last thing I wanted to ask before I turn to Senator
Roberts, is regarding sustainable agriculture research.
Agriculture research, again, is vital not just in ensuring the
continuation of production but also the quality of life in our
rural communities and the health of our environment. How do you
envision your position focusing on research programs that will
both sustain our environment and rural communities at the same
time?
Mr. Jen. Senator, I am at Cal Poly right now. I am the dean
of Cal Poly. We have a branch campus, about 3,000 acres, north
of Santa Cruz near the coast. It is a piece of land that has
more endangered species than any other parcel in California. We
have students there, and we practice a number of the
sustainable agriculture practices: holistic management of
grazing, organic farming, trying to preserve the wetlands, and
we are studying both the pros and the cons, the advantages and
disadvantages of sustainable agriculture.
It is actually my firm belief that production agriculture
and environment not only can peacefully coexist, but they can
actually enhance each other if it is practiced right. Actually,
it is one of my dreams that I want to make that branch campus
the model of how sustainable agriculture can be taught and
trained.
The Chairman. I might ask one other question before I turn
to Senator Lugar, who has joined us. What perspective does your
background in food technology provide you regarding food
safety, and is it your intention to make food safety a high
priority?
Mr. Jen. Food safety, absolutely, is a very high priority,
because it is the consumer's health at risk and my private
industry background does take that into consideration, because
I think all of the reputable food processors in this country
actually, want to produce food with almost zero risk for food
safety. The unfortunate thing is that there is no such thing as
zero risk on anything, but it is very close.
We do have the safest food in the world right now or in
human history even right now, but, we should continue to
improve as much as possible in that area.
The Chairman. Thank you very much, Dr. Jen.
The Chairman. Before we turn to other Senators, we now have
our former distinguished Chairman of this Committee and now our
Ranking Member, my good friend, Senator Dick Lugar, and I will
turn to Senator Lugar for an opening statement and for an
introduction. Then, I know the Congressmen also have timetables
they have to meet, and so, after yours, I will turn to the two
Congressmen for their introductions at that time.
STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD LUGAR, A U.S. SENATOR FROM INDIANA.
Senator Lugar. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I had an
opportunity to visit with Dr. Jen earlier this week, and just
for the sake of the record, the FBI reports were made known to
you and to me. I examined those carefully for both of the
nominees and found them completely in order. I just wanted to
make that comment for the benefit of the record. I appreciate
very much your coming this morning, Dr. Jen. I strongly support
your nomination.
Mr. Jen. Thank you, sir.
Senator Lugar. It is a special privilege to introduce this
morning a fellow Hoosier, Jim Moseley. He has been nominated by
the President to serve as Deputy Secretary of Agriculture. Jim
has extensive experience as an Indiana livestock and grain
farmer. His extensive business skills and leadership abilities
have been acknowledged in a variety of ways nationally as well
as in the Hoosier State, including the Indiana Master Farmer
Award; the Indiana Outstanding Young Farmer designation; and
his being named as National Outstanding Young Farmer of
America.
He started his farming career with the help of the
Department of Agriculture, with loans through what was then
called the Farmers Home Administration. Jim Moseley is an
example of how the Federal Government can constructively help
beginning farmers get a start in agriculture and, through hard
work, achieve success. In addition to his farm perspective, Jim
is a Washington veteran, having served as agricultural advisor
to the EPA administrator and as Assistant Secretary of
Agriculture for Natural Resources under former President George
Bush.
Due to his previous Washington experience and his
Midwestern agricultural background, he has a keen sense of what
areas are functioning well at the department as well as those
areas needing immediate attention, such as the Office of Civil
Rights and the Food Safety and Inspection Service. Jim is
dedicated to an improved departmental operation, providing more
efficient service to its customers and keeping in mind benefits
to taxpayers as a whole.
He is a Purdue University graduate with a bachelor of
science degree in horticulture. He has actively participated in
several organizations, including the Indiana Nature
Conservancy; the Outstanding Farmers of America; and the Farm
Foundation. It is a delight to have in the committee room today
Jim's wife Cathy, who has been an active partner in that
farming enterprise. I believe that Cathy and Kyle, their son,
are with us today, and I would ask that they stand so that they
can be recognized, too. We are delighted that you are here.
I thank Mr. Chairman for allowing me to make this
introduction at this point, and it is also a great pleasure to
have our colleagues, Congressman Buyer and Congressman Kerns,
here whom I know will want to commend our nominee.
The Chairman. Thank you very much, Senator Lugar, and I
will turn now to the two Congressmen. I do not know who is
senior, but Congressman Buyer was here first.
[Laughter.]
The Chairman. I will recognize Congressman Buyer.
STATEMENT OF HON. STEVE BUYER, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS
FROM INDIANA.
Mr. Buyer. I am always interested in the standards that you
hold here on the other side.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Buyer. I will not be redundant, Mr. Chairman, to the
comments made by Senator Lugar. I am not here because the
nominee lives in my new Fourth Congressional District of
Indiana. I am here because I stand with my friends. I have
known the Moseley and the Maple families in Indiana, and both
Jim and his wife Cathy come from good families, and they have
worked hard to enhance the reputations of good names. I think
Senator Lugar was very accurate when he said that these are two
individuals who started out with nothing, just as Dr. Jen in
his testimony started with $48 in his pocket, Jim and his wife
did not start with a net worth; they started with a net debt,
like many who start in agriculture, and they have been very
successful in their hog operations, their grain and their feed.
I would say that they both are representative of Hoosier pride,
and they have raised seven children, and so, I believe that he
is truly representative of the family farm.
I also would say that he understands what it means to be a
good steward of the land. I would say that he also has an
environmental conscience. He has a conservation awareness. He
has personally felt the toils of hog operations and how
difficult that has been over the years with its gyrations. Is
that accurate?
[Laughter.]
Mr. Buyer. Very high peaks and very low valleys. He also
understands the challenges that the farmer faces. This is an
individual of whom--this is an individual who has actually
lived and operated on the farm, so he knows what it means to
get the dirt under the fingernails, and he knows how difficult
the challenges are that the family farmer faces today.
When you have the opportunity to have an individual who
will help lead agricultural interests in this country, it is
someone who has been there; who is there right now, and it is
someone to whom the farmer can personally relate. Also, Senator
Lugar commented that he has a past history in his dealings here
in Washington. Well, I think that can be very helpful in his
present leadership post.
You also, Mr. Chairman, in your questions to Dr. Jen, you
used the words sustained ag research, and Mr. Moseley, in his
associations with Purdue University, he understands the
importance of sustained ag research and how that benefits our
society. I stand here with my friend, and I believe he
represents the best America has to offer to help lead our
agricultural interests.
I yield back my time.
The Chairman. Congressman Buyer, thank you very much. That
is a very fine tribute.
The Chairman. Congressman Brian Kerns, welcome.
STATEMENT OF HON. BRIAN KERNS, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS
FROM INDIANA.
Mr. Kerns. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member, fellow
Hoosier.
I, too, join with the Indiana delegation represented in
recommending Mr. Moseley for his appointment position today. I
represent Mr. Moseley in Congress, and, of course, Tippecanoe
County, Purdue University, all important to me and near and
dear to my heart. My wife is a graduate of Purdue University,
and I know Senator Lugar has actively been involved in helping
the university and agriculture in Indiana and across the
nation, and I just thank Mr. Moseley and his family, because
those of us involved in government know that it does involve
your entire family when you take an important position like
this.
I think he will serve the President well. Indiana and
Tippecanoe County are involved with the Farm Progress show this
year, so the Nation will be watching very closely the home area
in Tippecanoe County, and we will be very proud as Hoosiers to
have him as a member of the President's team and working with
all of you and all of us on the House side with the committees
as we move forward on the many difficult issues facing
agriculture today.
My family and I also live on a small farm in Indiana, much
smaller than Mr. Moseley's, but I can tell you I appreciate the
sacrifice that he and his family have made over the years to
build an operation and to set a standard for the community of
excellent quality products, and, as we work to expand exports
across to other lands and other countries, I think Jim is most
qualified and can bring a real hands-on approach to some of the
important issues we face in the Congress.
I want to thank the committee, the chairman and the ranking
member for allowing me to recommend and support our fellow
Hoosier today, and it is a great honor to be with you. Thank
you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Congressman Kerns, thank you again for your
very fine tribute.
The Chairman. Mr. Moseley, we welcome you back. Of course,
we are familiar with your previous tenure here in Washington. I
congratulate you for that. You did a great job as an advisor at
EPA and also as the Assistant Secretary for Natural Resources
in the previous administration. I think both of these will
serve you well in your new position as Deputy Secretary.
I might add that by listening to Congressman Buyer,
Congressman Kerns and Senator Lugar, it sounds like the only
tribulation as a family farmer that you have not gone through
is milking cows. Is that right?
[Laughter.]
The Chairman. Now, that indicates to me you are a real
smart guy.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Moseley. Sir, I do not do dairy.
The Chairman. I do not do dairy! You are a smart guy!
Well, Mr. Moseley, welcome back. I know the Congressmen
have tough schedules. You may stay if you like, or if your
schedules compel you to leave, you may be excused at any point
you want. I would turn now to Mr. Moseley for his statement.
STATEMENT OF JAMES R. MOSELEY, OF INDIANA, TO BE DEPUTY
SECRETARY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE.
Mr. Moseley. Thank you, Senator.
Good morning, and thank you, Mr. Chairman, Senator Lugar,
Congressman Buyer and Congressman Kerns. I really appreciate
your kind words and the other members of this committee as
well. It is a pleasure to be here and an honor to appear before
this committee. In awaiting this moment, I have had some time
to reflect on the magnitude of the task before me. Those
thoughts and an explanation of the attributes that I will bring
to this position if confirmed as the Deputy Secretary are
contained in my formal statement that, with your permission,
sir, I will submit for the record.
The Chairman. Without objection.
Mr. Moseley. Despite an attempt at brevity here, I want to
state clearly how honored I am to have been asked by President
Bush and Secretary Veneman to serve the Department of
Agriculture. I have been fortunate enough to experience a stint
at USDA about 11 years ago, and that period when I served as
Assistant Secretary of Agriculture for Natural Resources
Environment was a proving ground for the more complex job of
Deputy Secretary.
That position included managing the Forest Service, USDA's
largest agency, and that gave me a tremendous opportunity to
work with some very difficult public policy issues in a
significant way. Just as important is my experience managing my
farm, which is now a large, diversified crop and livestock
operation in Indiana. I grew up on a farm in Indiana and was
fortunate enough to start with Cathy my own farming operation
about 31 years ago with help from Farmers Home Administration.
It was necessary to have that help, because we started with no
equity other than our college educations.
My wife, Cathy is with me today, and I endured the economic
growing pains of turning a modest, 250-acre rented operation
into a small business vital enough to support several employees
and partners plus our seven children.
On the personal side of farming, I know the pleasure of
walking through the hog barn at night, watching the baby pigs
lined up along their mom's belly nursing. It is still a special
moment, no matter when you do it. I understand the feeling of
accomplishment that comes from looking out over a field of corn
in the early morning light and seeing it change day-by-day.
There is a satisfaction in that that few other experiences
provide.
Unfortunately, though, I also know the difficulties of
making ends meet when production costs rise or commodity prices
drop unexpectedly. We survived the hog crisis three years ago,
but I know too many producers who did not, and I still feel the
pain. Still, I count on the sum total of my experiences to help
me connect with the producers that the Department, by our
stated mission, has the responsibility to represent.
I also know that without the assurances that the Department
provides in important areas of food safety and the environment
that the consumers here and abroad will not have the confidence
to trust what our farmers produce. We must be vigilant in our
pursuit of credible ways to maintain that trust.
We also have the need to accomplish this with dignity and
respect for everyone involved. The Department must honor all
people and right any wrong that may have been committed in our
past. I pledge my commitment to this committee and to all the
Members of Congress to do the best job that I have the energy
to accomplish. For me, life is about honor, integrity and
commitment. Because I have more questions than answers right
now, all I can do is pledge to you to continue to live those
values. They have served Cathy and I well, and we would expect
them to continue to do so.
To make progress, we must agree on the right course for
American agriculture. In that regard, I look forward to working
with each one of you to serve the needs of those who depend
upon us to help them. I thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the
opportunity to appear before you today. It truly is an honor,
and I would be happy to answer your questions.
[The prepared statment of Mr. Moseley can be found in the
appendix on page 24.]
The Chairman. Mr. Moseley, thank you very much for your
eloquent statement and for your excellent written statement,
which I read the other evening. I again want to personally
thank you for your willingness to come back to Washington and
to serve in what Abraham Lincoln called the people's
Department, Agriculture, and I know you will do an outstanding
job as our deputy there.
I just have a couple of short questions before I turn to
Senator Lugar. Several of the articles you submitted in your
packet which I read indicate, that you have a very strong
interest in conservation. There is a lot of talk that this new
Farm bill coming up is going to be strongly conservation-
oriented. Personally, I hope so. Senator Smith and I and
several others on this side and some on the other side have
introduced a conservation bill which has been dubbed the
Conservation Security Act.
I hope that you would take a look at that, and please give
us any advice, suggestions, observations, you have on what
needs to be done with that bill or any other observations you
have on how we can both enhance farm income and, at the same
time, provide help for farmers who are practicing good
conservation methods. My view has been that in the past, so
many farmers have been using their time, their equipment,
sometimes their own money to be good stewards, and they are not
getting much reward for it. However, if they take land out of
production for CRP or WRP or something like that, then, they
can get paid for it.
It seems to me that we need to bridge that and get to the
point where we are actually providing help and support for
farmers who are indeed being good stewards of the land, and
that is sort of the basis of that bill.
You do not need to respond. I am just asking to please take
a look at it. I am open for any suggestions or advice that you
might have for us, and if you have any general comments on
conservation itself.
Mr. Moseley. Well, Chairman, obviously, conservation has
been something that has been a part of my life since I was a
little child, because I remember going with my grandfather and
planting trees and going fishing with him on the farm pond that
he established, and we have continued that tradition. My
background is that we have to have conservation on every piece
of agricultural land, working lands as well as those lands that
might be set aside for wildlife habitat or whatever purpose. I
am going to be delighted to spend some time working with you,
because this is something that is very important to me.
The Chairman. I appreciate that very much.
Second, it is my understanding you have adopted some
innovative technologies to handle the manure from your hog
operations. Again, this has bedeviled a lot of us in many parts
of the country where we have had more and more concentration of
livestock operations, particularly hog breeding operations, and
we are having a problem in terms of addressing the manure
issue. I hope that we can address this in the next Farm bill,
and again, since you have been there and done it, I would
appreciate any suggestions and advice you have on how we can
help farmers, who are producing hogs to be able to handle the
manure problem that they have.
It is funny. I am like you. When I was a kid, we never
referred to it as waste. This is a valuable resource that
everyone used, and we used it as fertilizer, and I think we
have to get back to that. We have to think of economical ways
of doing that. Any suggestions you have on that, I would
appreciate.
Mr. Moseley. You are absolutely right, Chairman. It is not
a waste. There was a period of time I think we went through,
and we considered it to be so. That is not the case. It is a
valuable resource that needs to be used. We have looked at that
in our operation as we have grown over the years, and we have
looked at it as a resource that we could use, and we have tried
to develop some new and innovative technologies to make it
easier to handle it and make sure that we do it in an
environmentally responsible and sensitive way.
When those discussions come up, I will share whatever
little bit of expertise I may have been able to accumulate to
this point.
The Chairman. Which is considerable. Thank you very much,
Mr. Moseley.
Mr. Moseley. Thank you.
The Chairman. Senator Lugar.
Senator Lugar. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I
share the Chairman's enthusiasm for the conservation work that
I am certain will be a part of our committee's efforts in the
Farm bill, and I want to recognize again, as he has, your
leadership in this area, your prior service in Washington as
well as on the farm in Indiana.
I would just note for the record that in 1985, 97 cents of
every financial assistance dollar for conservation was put on
conservation on working lands, and only 3 percent went to land
retirement in 1985. Now, today, only 15 percent goes to the
working land conservation part of this and 85 percent to land
retirement. I make that point because clearly, this is going to
be an issue before the committee, and certainly, Senator Harkin
and others as they have tried to address this legislation
recognize that.
I want to make a point that also, after our hearing on
conservation early this year, conservation people in Indiana
came to me and revealed that every acre in Indiana is now
covered by extensive maps. For instance, on my farm, they could
identify acre-by-acre the soil types. They could even make an
estimate in a normal year with normal rainfall what the yield
would be for corn and for soybeans. There is an extraordinary
amount of information available.
Now, on top of that, then, they also have some suggestions
for what we ought to do to enhance the value of that land and,
perhaps even more importantly, the cleanliness of the water in
terms of the runoff and various other things that will be
important in the stewardship of that land. I simply make this
point because I know that you share an enthusiasm for the EQIP
program and for others that we have adopted, and maybe you have
some ideas in the future. Do you have any at this point that
you want to reveal to us, or can you give us some landscape of
what kind of leadership you may offer in the conservation area?
Mr. Moseley. Well, in light of the need for brevity, I will
not go into a long diatribe as to all of the things. Senator,
this is a very large area of concern, and there are many things
that we can do. It is putting in place the right incentives;
making sure that we have the resources available. Literally, I
could sit here for an hour, which you do not want me to do, and
talk about this.
The key thing is that the Department does need to provide
leadership. We have some tremendous opportunities. The new GIS
technology that I think that the folks from Indiana were
alluding to is very significant in terms of helping us to give
some sense and idea of where these resources are at and how we
can best utilize them so that we do not end up with rivers and
streams that have contamination.
The whole issue of soil quality is something that I think
we will see emerge in the debate as we move forward here, and
if we enhance soil quality, we enhance water quality. There is
a broad array of issues that we need to address, and what I
would like to do is pledge to you that I will be a leader
within the Department to try and accomplish those things and be
in discussion and debate with the Members of this Congress, and
we will work on it.
Senator Lugar. Well, I thank you for that response and
likewise, your desire for brevity. I am hopeful that after your
confirmation that swiftly, that leadership that you have
mentioned will be forthcoming; in other words, that you will
make recommendations, or you and the Secretary together or
however you want to manage your testimony or your information,
to all of us, because the timeframe is such in which if you
have important ideas, they really need to be made known----
Mr. Moseley. Yes.
Senator Lugar [continuing]. Rapidly, and I think the
Chairman that would share that thought: if we are to begin
forming a conservation title of the Farm bill, why, the grist
for the mill needs to become swiftly.
I would just ask one question of Dr. Jen, and that is from
our conversation earlier this week, I know of your leadership
in the research area your enthusiasm for this, but I would just
take the opportunity to say this committee has tried to
authorize cutting-edge research, merit-based, anyone in the
country could apply, really, that has extraordinary ideas.
Unhappily, all that we have authorized, $120 million a year
for 5 years, for 2 years, the House of Representatives
appropriators X-ed out the cutting-edge part of it, and we did
not have that benefit. Now, the third year, to his credit,
Secretary Glickman found ways in which the Department of
Agriculture could revive the idea, so $120 million of
extraordinary research projects occurred last year in the
country, and I hope that may occur again.
Likewise, in our biomass quest, and this is so important,
because everyone talks a good game about agriculture and
energy, but the amount of follow-through has been, if not
negligible, disappointing. I am hopeful that your enthusiasm in
both of these areas will likewise manifest itself in
suggestions to us either for legislative enactment or what you
and the Secretary can do administratively. We need to move the
ball ahead, because there is fertile ground, I think, with
legislation on the books, but if we need to tweak the system,
this is the time, and your comments and suggestions would be
very helpful in a short period of time.
Do you have any further comment this morning?
Mr. Jen. Senator Lugar, thank you very much. I think like
you said, like you and I discussed briefly, the competitive
grant programs it is one of the forms of funding mechanisms
that can probably bring the best research return with the least
amount of investment. Not only that, it can also have the
chance of having more team kind of approach, that multi-
disciplinary type of approach than a set formula way of doing
things and things like that.
That does not mean that, formula funding is not good,
because I think it is absolutely needed for just a base program
as well. I think if any new idea of research and the cutting-
edge type of research is launched, I think the competitive
grant program should be the way to go.
Senator Lugar. Thank you very much.
Mr. Jen. I really thank you for that question.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Lugar.
Senator Dayton.
Senator Dayton. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Moseley, looking at your reports over the last several
years, your own farming operations are almost a microcosm of
American agriculture in that the extent of your participation
totally appropriately and probably necessarily in the
Government programs both in terms of dollars as well as the
number of programs underscores my experience with Minnesota
farmers as well, that they are more and more dependent
financially on the Government payments rather than market
prices, and the number of programs they are participating; it
just seems as though to be a successful farmer these days, you
have to be farming to fit into the Government program niches
rather than into market-based agriculture.
Do you have any thoughts at the macro level on how,
especially with this new Farm bill, we might address that?
Mr. Moseley. Well, I certainly have had a lot of experience
in this as you have been able to detect. We have participated
in price support programs for as long as they have been
available.
Senator Dayton. Sure.
Mr. Moseley. It became a competitive issue, really. I can
recall back several years ago; in fact, I believe that Senator
Lugar, the last time I was before this committee, questioned me
about this. We literally got to a point in 1986 when, if we
were not participating, and we had not participated for a
couple of years, and we did not participate in a program, we
literally could not retain our asset base. We could not retain
the land that we had been farming. We were not competitive.
Other people could take the Government program support, and
they could literally bid more for that resource than what we
could.
It was essential at that point in time. I think what you
are pointing out here is that there are cycles in agriculture,
and there are those up times that we feel very good, and then,
there are those down times for whatever reason. It may be
prices; it may be drought; it may be a broad national disaster;
it may be a very regional, localized. There are those times
when farmers need some help, and I understand that.
Now, for us to bring forward the right policy and figure
out when we need to apply it and how we need to apply it I
think is something that this body, as well as the Department of
Agriculture, needs to be fully engaged in in the debate and the
discussion. I do not have a specific set of recommendations for
you today about how to do that, but I will tell you that with
the experience and the background that I have, I can certainly
be fully engaged within the Department in terms of when a
policy recommendation might come forward I can evaluate: will
that work at the farm level? Will that really help farmers?
Senator Dayton. Do you consider current market prices for
basic agricultural commodities to be too low? If so, do you
have any recommendations or a sense of a direction that we need
to go in to boost those market prices?
Mr. Moseley. The current market price for any farmer is
always too low.
[Laughter.]
Senator Dayton. Well-said.
Mr. Moseley. Now, that is just reality speaking. Very few
of us go to the coffee shop and talk about how wonderful the
prices are. Obviously, we have gone through a very distressed
time both in the crops and the livestock, and we have some
major challenges here. We have trade issues that if we could
open up this trade, it would make a significant difference for
the agricultural economy in this country.
We have issues there that need to be addressed, but in the
meantime, and there are opportunities for any size of farm to
do better, to move further up the food chain in terms of the
value added that they are putting into their products. We are
not going to have all of our answers come from trade, and we
are not going to have all of those answers addressed
immediately, and I think there is a need for us to continue to
work at making sure that there is a safety net for farmers.
What that is right now, I am not going to give you an idea,
because I have questions as well.
I will be happy to work with you, and we will try to figure
it out.
Senator Dayton. Thank you.
Dr. Jen, I would just like to go back for a brief time here
to the Chairman's comment about feed lot operations, because we
have a horrific problem in parts of Minnesota with, now, the
scale of livestock production and these legumes and the effects
they have on their neighboring farmers and neighboring
communities, and I guess--and I may not be fully aware of
everything going on, but it seems to me that the USDA's
research involvement in this area, at least the dissemination
of that information, has been just minuscule relative to the
scope of the problem, and do you have any thoughts going in on
how the USDA could both make that research more applicable to
current conditions and also disseminate that information more
effectively?
Mr. Jen. Senator, I could not speak about the dissemination
of the report and things like that, and if you want, if you
choose to confirm me, I can look into it and report back to you
on why it was not being done.
As far as the biomass, that is a research area that is very
multi-disciplinarily oriented. It needs engineers and other
people besides just agricultural scientists to be able to get
it done. It is kind of like we had a little project at Cal Poly
where the dairy manures in the legumes are being covered with
engineers' help, trying to harvest the energy and heat the
waters for the dairy barn to use, and that is kind of like the
biomass is being turned into an valuable thing.
At the same time, it also takes out the odors for the dairy
farmers. It is still in the experimental stage, but certainly,
these are the types of research projects, but they cannot be
done just by the animal science people or the dairy science
people. We brought in, really, the engineers, the ag engineers
and the mechanical engineers and other people; the flavor
chemists from food science in a team approach, and I think that
latches on a little bit of one of my answers to Senator Lugar:
to me, today's research has to be approached by a team. No
longer is a single scientist doing a single discipline to solve
a problem. The problem is multi-faceted and needs a team
approach for that.
Senator Dayton. Thank you, Dr. Jen.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Dayton.
Senator Roberts.
Senator Roberts. Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I am struck by the caliber of our nominees and the tenor of
this morning's hearing. I think this has been a class act
hearing. I think that any farmer and rancher--well, yes, we do
have TV; I apologize--but I think any farmer or rancher who
would read the testimony here and hear the responses of our two
nominees would feel pretty darn good that we are going to have
very capable hands down at the Department.
Kika de la Garza, who is the chairman emeritus of the
sometimes powerful House Ag Committee----
[Laughter.]
Senator Roberts [continuing]. Used to say in agriculture,
there is a special feeling, a special commitment. You have to
feel the ground; have to feel the earth. We, at that time, on
the minority side used to listen to those speeches quite often,
as my colleagues will testify. He was really making a point,
and I think both of the nominees certainly have that feeling. I
am struck by the only in America stories of both nominees: 48
bucks and then starting out with the beginning farmer program.
I remember in 1980, when I first ran for Congress, I said the
most important question in agriculture today is where is the
next generation of farmers going to come from? Jim, you are an
outstanding example of that, you and your family.
Now, for both of the nominees, return with me now to the
not-so-thrilling days of the ALAR scare with apples, and you
could apply that to any of the food safety concerns that we
have in today's world, whether it is E. coli or whether it is
hoof and mouth, or whether it is salmonella or whatever is
happening, and I remember Dick Ling talking about this, and I
remember Ed Madigan, our dear friend and colleague, and his
efforts down at the Department with Ann Veneman and yourself,
Jim, to put together some kind of an immediate response team
with FDA, EPA and USDA so that when we have a food safety
concern--scare is a better word--and we have people on
television who are saying very alarmist things, and I
understand that, because in terms of food safety, you have to
err on the side of the public and public safety.
It seemed to us that we could have more of a response team
where you used the land grant schools and people like Dr. Jen;
state departments of health and environment and agriculture. I
have been talking to Ann about that--pardon me, Secretary
Veneman--about putting together again a response team to, a,
set the record straight; basically inform the public of what is
going on; and, more importantly, what we are doing about it.
We just had a situation, in Texas and perhaps in Oklahoma,
I hope not, in regards to karnal bunt. We have just had the
Star Link situation. You know about hoof and mouth. I would
hope that we could work on putting together an immediate
response team to calm the public; get the sound science facts
out; and demonstrate to the public about what we are doing. I
think it would really help.
Would you like to make a comment on that regard?
Mr. Moseley. Senator Roberts, I do remember ALAR. It seems
like controversy precedes me and hopefully does not follow me,
but I had just been appointed at EPA when the ALAR issue broke,
and I know that there was a lot of concern about the issue, but
there was probably more concern in this body and from the
agriculture community out there about the way in which we
responded to it. I think we have learned a little bit. I think
we are better today than we were then. Are we good enough?
Probably not.
I hear your admonition. We need to be immediate insofar as
we can be, immediate in our response, because many times, these
issues are emotionalized before we have an opportunity to get
out in front of them, and we will work with EPA and FDA and any
other Federal agency that may need to be brought to the table
to try to accomplish the objective.
I hear your admonition, and it is one that is very real and
I know heartfelt, and I feel the same.
Senator Roberts. Dr. Jen, would you like to add anything,
sir?
Mr. Jen. Thank you, Senator Roberts.
In my profession ,it is food processing. I attend the
Institute of Food Technologists. That profession is interesting
in that they have science communicators assigned, the
university people expertise assigned, in every single state
that connected to the media. Whenever there are certain
questions related with food processing and the food safety part
of it is involved, they gave the media that person who has
expertise to respond in that.
It has worked reasonably well. I think, if we can expand
that into all of the disciplines within agriculture, we might
be able to develop a quick response team. That is another
different way of doing it.
Senator Roberts. I think that aspect is very important. I
know, Tom, you are a member of the Council of Agriculture
Science and Technology that is a very important group, and at
least 10 years ago, they were very influential and hope they
can be again.
I know my time has expired. I just want to make one other
point. We held a hearing, a bipartisan hearing, several months
ago in the Armed Services Committee, in the Emerging Threats
Subcommittee, and we had appropriators there; we had the
Intelligence Committee there; it was a very widespread hearing,
and it was in regard to homeland security, and we brought up
the issue, and Secretary Veneman testified along with 46 other
Federal agencies all involved in homeland security. The subject
was agroterrorism and the possibility that some state-sponsored
outfit or some non-state-supported group or any group of wackos
that wanted to get after our nation's food supply and what the
status of that was, and where was the Department of Agriculture
in regards to immediate response or hopefully to detect and
deter and then, in the consequence, management?
I am very concerned that we are not there. The FBI tells us
that this is very, very high risk. The probability used to be
low. Now, that probability is working up.
I just sort of lay that out there. It is something that we
do not talk about much in the USDA, but, I mean, the nation's
food supply and the kind of chaos that would occur if, in fact,
we have a major infestation is a very serious thing. I do not
ask you to respond. I just wanted to indicate my concern.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Roberts.
Senator Allard.
Senator Allard. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much.
I would just emphasize to both nominees that I concur with
the comments made by my colleagues on the committee. I am
impressed with your qualifications and the experience that you
bring to the USDA. I wish more people had your qualifications
and experience----
Mr. Moseley. Thank you.
Senator Allard [continuing]. Who oversee many of the
programs that affect agriculture.
I come from a unique part of the country where you cannot
rely on nature itself to provide a favorable environment for
farming. We have to do things in my part of the country to
enhance the soil and to provide water for farmers. There are
agricultural irrigated enterprises in the State of Colorado,
and anybody who is in agriculture does some irrigation to one
degree or another, or, if they do not, they have a very limited
dry land farm situation.
Part of the ability for them to survive is good science. It
needs to be further developed not only for the production side,
but for the regulators as well. Regulators need to have good
science so that when they are making the calls, they are based
on good, sound fact and not something that has been conjured
up. I also want to emphasize how important I think education
is, not only to the farmer, but to the public. All of this
relates to food safety issues.
In Colorado, we also have water issues. Sometimes nitrogen
will build up in the flowing stream. We can bring the water
out; for use in irrigation. If we know how much nitrogen is
already in the water, it may limit the amount of fertilizer
that the farmer has to put in. Then, it may be returned to the
stream in better condition than when it came out.
I hope that in your review of some of the policies in the
Department of Agriculture that you would be very cognizant of
how important water is in semi-arid climates like the State of
Colorado. At times, we have agencies who feel like they want to
take that from the farmer, and they have an adverse impact on
that farmer. It puts him out of business.
I do not know whether you have given that any thought, but
I hope that you will keep that in mind during your
deliberations. Mr. Moseley, maybe you would like to respond to
my education comments and perhaps both of you would like to
respond to the good science aspects I have mentioned.
Mr. Moseley. Well, you have given me a long list of things
that I could respond to, but it is obvious that in terms of the
irrigation issues in the West, they are exceedingly important
to agriculture. I have a number of friends of mine in the
Western states, California specifically, but they are not in
agriculture unless they have irrigation. I understand the
difficulty and complexity of that issue. It is not easy. Water
rights are a fundamental part of the West, and I certainly
sense that.
We, in our part of the world, why, we have the problem of
getting rid of water. You shared something with me today that I
was not aware of, and that just goes to show that we can learn
something every day, that you can use the water, take the
nitrogen out, put it back in the stream, and it is better. I
was not aware of that. That is what technology, that is what
scientific searching, does for us. Then, once we are able to
accomplish that, we educate people.
You have done that with me today, and that is the kind of
activity that we are about, one of the important activities of
the Department of Agriculture. I know that is Dr. Jen's area,
but I am beginning to develop a very good relationship with Dr.
Jen, though we have not known one another very long. It has
just come together very quickly. I have a tremendous amount of
confidence that with he and I both working together, we are
going to be able to forward the need of farmers and consumers
in this country with respect to research and education.
Mr. Jen. Senator, I would like to probably address very
briefly about education of the general public. I think you
struck another chord that I feel very strongly about; that is,
I feel that agriculture, the field in general, including
academia and the Federal Government and all that, we have done
a pretty good job of informing ourselves, but we have not done
as good a job of informing the general public.
I had an interesting experience when I got to Cal Poly a
few years ago. I was interested, and I said do we have a
Department of Ag Communication, and the answer was no. We do
have a group of students who are interested in that, so I put
together a program that combined journalism and agriculture
together in ag communication, in order, in other words, for
them to be able to tell not only the farmer but tell the
general public the knowledge.
The sad thing to me, Senator, is that they have an
agriculture communication national committee or national
association, and we send our students that never had a major in
ag communication to compete. There are 15 categories. They come
back and tell me that, Dr. Jen, we are the second-best in the
nation.
I feel it is very sad, because the fact is I do not even
have a major. Our students did not even train in it. I just put
a quick fix of get some journalism faculty to teach our
agriculture kids how to read and how to write to the general
public, and they are already the second-best in the nation.
I see a tremendous need of the ag education field and that
it is in my shop in USDA. You can be sure that I will look into
it and see if we can strengthen that part of it.
Senator Allard. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I see my time is
already expired. It seems like when it is your time, that red
light turns on so quickly.
[Laughter.]
Senator Allard. There are many other areas I would like to
cover, but I want to personally thank these nominees for their
dedication to public service and I look forward to working with
them.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Allard.
Senator Crapo.
Senator Crapo. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. In the
interests of time, I will not ask any questions, so you can
relax. I do want to associate myself with the comments that
Senator Allard made about the water issue in the West. I
represent Idaho, and we are having a drought there this year,
and we have tremendous competing needs for water. In fact, if
you think about it, most of our civilization lives around water
for a lot of reasons. It is the core of our drinking water for
municipal and industrial development. In the West, we rely on a
lot of our systems for flood control. It is recreation; it is
our environment; it is irrigation; it is power production. I
think there are very few aspects of most of our lives that are
not dramatically impacted by water management, and agriculture
is central to that, particularly in my state. I do want to
focus on those issues with you in the future.
I would simply conclude my comments by thanking both of you
for being willing to serve. We know what it takes for a person
these days to be willing to step up and say yes when the
President asks for you to come forward and serve or when the
Secretary of Agriculture asks for you to come forward and
serve, and I just want you to know that we are aware of the
tremendous sacrifices that you have made and are making, and we
appreciate men of your caliber being willing to come forward
and help our country in these times.
Mr. Moseley. Thank you.
Mr. Jen. Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Crapo.
Again, I want to echo the sentiments of my colleagues here
in thanking you both for your dedication and devotion to public
service, and the sacrifices you are making to assume these
positions. This committee will, as soon as we can get a quorum,
move expeditiously on these nominations.
If there is nothing more to add, I will excuse the
witnesses, and we will move to the second phase of our hearing
this morning on feed grains and oil seeds. Thank you both very
much.
Mr. Moseley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Jen. Thank you.
[Whereupon, at 9:40 a.m., the committee adjourned.]
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QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS
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