[Senate Hearing 107-1072]
[From the U.S. Government Printing Office]
S. Hrg. 107-1072
NOMINATION OF ROBERT W. COBB TO BE
INSPECTOR GENERAL OF THE NATIONAL
AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE,
SCIENCE, AND TRANSPORTATION
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
MARCH 13, 2002
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Commerce, Science, and
Transportation
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SENATE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE, SCIENCE, AND TRANSPORTATION
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
ERNEST F. HOLLINGS, South Carolina, Chairman
DANIEL K. INOUYE, Hawaii JOHN McCAIN, Arizona
JOHN D. ROCKEFELLER IV, West TED STEVENS, Alaska
Virginia CONRAD BURNS, Montana
JOHN F. KERRY, Massachusetts TRENT LOTT, Mississippi
JOHN B. BREAUX, Louisiana KAY BAILEY HUTCHISON, Texas
BYRON L. DORGAN, North Dakota OLYMPIA J. SNOWE, Maine
RON WYDEN, Oregon SAM BROWNBACK, Kansas
MAX CLELAND, Georgia GORDON SMITH, Oregon
BARBARA BOXER, California PETER G. FITZGERALD, Illinois
JOHN EDWARDS, North Carolina JOHN ENSIGN, Nevada
JEAN CARNAHAN, Missouri GEORGE ALLEN, Virginia
BILL NELSON, Florida
Kevin D. Kayes, Democratic Staff Director
Moses Boyd, Democratic Chief Counsel
Jeanne Bumpus, Republican Staff Director and General Counsel
C O N T E N T S
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Page
Hearing held on March 13, 2002................................... 1
Statement of Senator Allen....................................... 15
Statement of Senator Wyden....................................... 1
Witnesses
Cobb, Robert W., nominee for the position of Inspector General of
the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.............. 3
Prepared Statement........................................... 4
Biographical Information..................................... 6
Appendix
McCain, Hon. John, U.S. Senator from Arizona, prepared statement. 19
NOMINATION OF ROBERT W. COBB TO BE
INSPECTOR GENERAL OF THE NATIONAL
AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION
----------
WEDNESDAY, MARCH 13, 2002
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:30 p.m. in room
SR-253, Russell Senate Office Building, Hon. Ron Wyden,
presiding.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RON WYDEN,
U.S. SENATOR FROM OREGON
Senator Wyden. The Committee on Commerce, Science, and
Transportation will come to order. This afternoon, the
Committee was to hear two nominations, that of Major General
Charles Bolden to be the Deputy Administrator and Mr. Robert
Cobb to be the Inspector General of NASA. Instead, we will hear
Mr. Cobb's nomination, as General Bolden has withdrawn his name
from nomination in order to continue his military service at
this time of war. General Bolden is the Commanding General of
the Third Marine Aircraft Wing in San Diego, California.
Before we begin hearing from Mr. Cobb, I will say that I
believe that General Bolden would be an excellent nominee for
NASA's Deputy Administrator. In 1980, he was selected for an
astronaut candidate for NASA, and qualified as a Space Shuttle
pilot astronaut in 1981. General Bolden went on to fly four
missions in space. The first was aboard the Space Shuttle
Columbia in 1986. Another member of that crew is a
distinguished member of our Full Committee and a member of the
Subcommittee I chair, Senator Bill Nelson.
He also knew the job of Deputy Administrator, having served
as the Assistant Deputy Administrator from 1992 to 1994. I am
certain that his service to NASA would have been as valuable as
it continues to be in the United States Marine Corps.
Let me also State that I think it is very understandable
that the President of the United States wants to have all hands
on deck in this fight against terrorism, and he has my support,
as he has the support of all Americans. At the same time, I
think it is critical that NASA also have all hands on deck, and
I am very hopeful that the administration will move quickly to
fill the position of nominee for NASA's Deputy Administrator.
There are a number of important changes underway now at the
agency. Mr. O'Keefe, for example, has looked to a number of
changes in technology policy that I think warrant thoughtful
analysis, and we have learned just in the last few days that
NASA has not yet ended its financial woes. Its independent
auditor, PriceWaterhouseCoopers, has declined to issue an
opinion on the agency's fiscal year 2001 financial statement,
essentially declaring that NASA is not an agency that you can
audit.
Now, like millions of Americans, I share the hopes and
dreams of the agency for great gains and achievements in space,
but there are not going to be a lot of dreams, there are not
going to be a lot of gains if, in fact, you have got an agency
that auditors claim is in such financial chaos that you cannot
audit it, so we have got a problem here that of course is not
the first time we have heard about this.
The General Accounting Office has cited before NASA's
inability to provide documentation it needed to independently
verify obligations and expenses, so it is critical that the
administration move to fill the slot that Mr. Bolden would have
assumed had he been confirmed. We are going to work with them,
as we always do in this Committee, in a bipartisan way, but
with NASA charged to undertake civilian research and
development involving flight activity and aeronautics and space
at a critical time with a budget of nearly $15 billion, it is
important that in addition to having all hands on deck in this
fight against terrorism, that we have all hands on deck with
respect to the programs that are under NASA's jurisdiction.
To further underscore the importance of this work, I would
like to announce today that after we have had a chance to
consult with Senator Allen and Senator McCain on the Minority
side and, of course, Chairman Hollings, who has been so
supportive of these programs and this work, over the next 2
months we are going to have an oversight hearing to examine
some of the activities that are taking place at the agency.
I think this is a timely run-up to the reauthorization of
the program, which expires later this year, so there are
considerable questions that warrant the scrutiny of both the
Full Committee and the Subcommittee I chair, and we are going
to examine them.
Of course these financial flaws in particular stem from
NASA's lack of a modern, integrated financial management
system. While NASA officials agree that there is a problem and
have promised the new financial system will provide the
necessary documentation, we do have to note that this is NASA's
third attempt since 1988 to integrate its financial systems.
The first two attempts were abandoned after 12 years, and
spending a reported $180 million, and Mr. Cobb, whose
nomination we will consider today, is going to have an
important role in straightening out those systems once and for
all, and it is vital that the agency does so. The agency's
financial problems threaten its future, threaten the great
tradition of research and development that produces
technologies that will drive our economy.
I look forward to working with Mr. Cobb and with
Administrator O'Keefe on many of the issues facing the agency.
During Mr. O'Keefe's confirmation hearing before the Committee,
I challenged him to return NASA to a science and research-
driven agenda so that our dedicated scientists and engineers
can find the breakthrough technologies that have been NASA at
its best. To follow through on that vision, it will be critical
that the Inspector General be a watch-dog, ensuring that the
agency's financial problems do not recur under Administrator
O'Keefe's watch.
Mr. Robert Cobb currently serves as ethics counsel to the
President. From 1992 to 2001, he served as Associate General
Counsel in the U.S. Office of Government Ethics. While he is
not an accountant by training, we are hopeful that his skills,
combined with those of the excellent NASA Inspector General
staff, will allow him to be a dogged advocate, a persistent
advocate for fiscal responsibility at the agency.
We look forward to hearing from Mr. Cobb today. We
anticipate that there will be a timely confirmation, and before
we hear from Mr. Moose Cobb this afternoon, we do want to
welcome a sort of phalanx of Cobb supporters here, Cobb family
members, Mr. Cobb's wife Jane, sons Robert and Johnny, brother
Calvin, sister-in-law Charlotte Young, and nephew Christian.
Will all of you stand? Welcome to all of you. It is a proud
day for your family, and we are very pleased that all of you
are here with us this afternoon.
Let us go right to your testimony, and we will make any
prepared remarks part of the hearing record in their entirety,
and you can proceed as you see fit.
STATEMENT OF ROBERT W. COBB, NOMINEE FOR THE
POSITION OF INSPECTOR GENERAL OF THE NATIONAL
AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION
Mr. Cobb. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a summary of
those remarks. It is an honor to appear before this Committee
as the President's nominee to be the Inspector General of the
National Aeronautics and Space Administration. The mission of
the NASA Office of Inspector General is clear, to root out
fraud, waste, and abuse, and promote economy and efficiency in
the administration of the agency's programs and operations.
The role involves law enforcement and oversight. The
oversight role to an extent parallels and facilitates Congress'
oversight responsibilities. In order to effectively carry out
the IG mission, a positive working relationship with Congress
is required. As IG, I would ensure that the OIG meets its
obligations to Congress under the Inspector General Act of
1978, and I would work with and be responsive to Members of
Congress and their staff.
I would also seek to give fair, reasonable, and independent
assessments of agency programs in accordance with the IG act. I
am hopeful that NASA management would view IG recommendations
as being beneficial to achieving agency objectives.
If confirmed as the NASA IG, I will have certain immediate
objectives. I believe safety, mission assurance, and vigilant
risk management is critical to maintaining the public's trust
in NASA. I would seek to utilize the established tools of the
OIG to ensure that NASA's programs, directed at risk
management, security, and emergency preparedness are effective
in meeting their stated objectives.
Also, I believe that the American people have the right to
be confident that NASA's financial management is sound. I have
discussed the issue of financial management with the
Administrator, and he has committed to working with the
Inspector General in ensuring sufficient management attention
is given to NASA's financial systems.
While existing financial systems need to be addressed
generally, there are also particular programs that will require
significant IG attention. For example, I would focus some IG
resources on the cost growth of the International Space
Station, and management's plans for addressing that problem.
Finally, I would seek to have the NASA OIG reflect the
efficiency and integrity that it will be promoting agencywide.
Like many government agencies, NASA is changing to meet new
priorities. The NASA IG will need to be a force in ensuring
that the change at NASA is handled economically, efficiently,
and in a manner that is consistent with applicable law.
Thank you for your time and consideration. Public service
is a public trust, and I would be honored to uphold the public
trust as Inspector General at NASA. I now am prepared to answer
any questions you may have.
[The prepared statement and biographical information of Mr.
Cobb follow:]
Prepared Statement of Robert W. Cobb, Nominee for the Position of
Inspector General of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration
Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee: It is an honor for me to
appear before this Committee as the President's nominee to be the
Inspector General of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.
I am proud to say that I am a member of a family that has for
generations reflected a dedication to public service, both civilian and
military. My children's names reflect some of this history: Robert
Watson Cobb, age 10, was named after me and my grandfather, Robert
Watson, who was Commissioner of Patents during the Eisenhower
administration. My son Johnson Hagood Cobb, age 8, was named after his
great-, great-great-, and great-great-great- grandfathers, all named
Johnson Hagood, all of whom graduated from the United States Military
Academy. One served as a full-colonel for four years under General
Patton in World War II, and the others served as generals, and one
subsequently served as the Governor of South Carolina. My son Calvin
Hayes Cobb, age 3, was named after my father, Calvin Hayes Cobb, Jr.
who, along with his brother, Warrington Cobb, and his father, also
Calvin Hayes Cobb, graduated from the United States Naval Academy. My
grandfather's grandfather, Calvin Hayes, served in the 27th Maine
Infantry and the 32nd Regiment Maine Infantry in the Civil War. Both my
father and his father served in World War II, my grandfather as an
admiral. I note my children's other grandfather, Dolphin D. Overton
III, attended the United States Military Academy at West Point, flew
149 missions in Korea, and was South Carolina's first jet ace. His son
was a Navy pilot. My great-grandfather on my mother's side, Asbury
Churchwell Latimer, served as United States Senator from South
Carolina, early last century. Lastly, my wife, Jane Overton Cobb, has
been a Federal employee for 13 years. Like others in my family, I have
been drawn to public service and am dedicated to serving our country.
It has been a great honor for me to serve as Associate Counsel to
the President with responsibility, under the supervision of the Counsel
to the President, over the ethics portfolio for the White House Office.
For any new White House, the ethics program has to be created from
scratch. There are hundreds of new employees, many of whom have never
worked in the executive branch, who have to be trained on applicable
ethics requirements. Since part of the training emphasizes that
employees ask before they act, there are thousands of questions that
are asked and answered. Financial disclosure reports for those who are
public filers must be collected and reviewed. All conflict of interest
issues must be resolved. A system for confidential financial disclosure
has to be put in place. Policies on the handling of gifts and myriad
other issues are established. A system for reviewing financial
conflicts of candidates for Presidential appointments requiring Senate
confirmation has to be set up in order to process the hundreds of
candidates who must be cleared for nomination by the Office of the
Counsel to the President. To assist me in accomplishing the task at
hand, I recruited career executive branch employees, including thirteen
attorneys and two ethics specialists, to help with the workload. I take
great pride in having worked for the President in this capacity.
For nine years at the Office of Government Ethics, I worked on the
application of conflicts of interest laws and conduct regulations to
executive branch employees. Much of this work was directed at
preventing corruption. But, I also gained substantial experience in
matters relating to the criminal and administrative handling of conduct
cases. I advised and assisted Inspectors General and other Federal law
enforcement authorities in a number of criminal and administrative
investigations of conflicts of interest, misstatements or failure to
disclose information on financial disclosure reports, and other conduct
violations. Several of these cases involved agency heads (or former
agency heads) and several others involved other senior Government
officials. These cases were resolved through criminal convictions,
civil settlements (of allegations that if proven would constitute a
criminal misdemeanor), resignation (in one case after a critical
Inspector General report), and impositions by the Department of Justice
of civil penalties and otherwise. I also assisted in the evaluation of
misconduct allegations against Inspectors General in connection with
activities of the Integrity Committee of the President's Council on
Integrity and Efficiency.
In fulfilling my role as a Government ethics attorney, both at the
Office of Government Ethics and at the White House, I worked on a range
of issues. The contexts and factual predicates for my work have
provided me with on-the-job training on Government operations,
including organization of agencies, appropriations law, public-private
partnerships, personnel issues, operations of Offices of Inspectors
General, criminal and administrative proceedings, and myriad other
organizational and operational concerns. I have also been tapped, both
at the White House and the Office of Government Ethics, to be the
contract attorney on agency contracts or to advise the agency in
connection with its procurement activities.
Prior to Government service, I was in private practice for five and
one-half years with the law firm Ober, Kaler, Grimes & Shriver. My
practice involved representation of clients in a broad range of
commercial matters and litigation.
I now have the prospect of a new challenge, to serve the American
people as Inspector General of NASA. The mission of the NASA IG is
clear: to root out fraud, waste and abuse, and to promote economy and
efficiency in the administration of the agency's programs and
operations. The role involves law enforcement and oversight. The
oversight role, to an extent, parallels and facilitates Congress's
oversight responsibilities. In order to effectively carry out the IG
mission, a positive working relationship with Congress is required. As
IG, I would ensure that the OIG meets its IG Act obligations to
Congress, and I would work with and be responsive to Members of
Congress and their staff. I would also seek to give fair, reasonable,
and independent assessments of agency programs in accordance with the
IG Act. I am hopeful that NASA management would view IG recommendations
as being beneficial to achieving agency objectives.
If confirmed as the NASA IG, I will have certain immediate
objectives. I believe safety, mission assurance, and vigilant risk
management is critical to maintaining the public's trust in NASA. I
would seek to utilize the established tools of the OIG to ensure that
NASA's programs directed at risk management, security, and emergency
preparedness are effective in meeting their stated objectives. Also, I
believe that the American people have a right to be confident that
NASA's financial management is sound. I have discussed the issue of
financial management with the Administrator, and he is committed to
working with the Inspector General in ensuring sufficient management
attention is given to NASA's financial systems. While existing
financial systems need to be addressed generally, there are also
particular programs that will require significant IG attention. For
example, I would focus OIG resources on the cost growth of the
International Space Station and management's plans for addressing that
problem. Finally, I would seek to have the NASA OIG reflect the
efficiency and integrity that it will be promoting agency wide.
Like many Government agencies, NASA is changing to meet new
priorities. The NASA IG will need to be a force in ensuring that change
at NASA is handled economically, efficiently and in a manner that is
consistent with applicable law.
Thank you for your time and consideration. Public service is a
public trust, and I would be honored to uphold the public trust as
Inspector General at NASA. I am prepared to answer any questions you
may have.
______
A. BIOGRAPHICAL INFORMATION
1. Name: Robert Watson Cobb (Moose).
2. Position to which nominated: Inspector General, National
Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA).
3. Date of nomination: 2/26/02.
4. Address: (Information not released to the public). Office: Room
157, Eisenhower Executive Office Bldg. Washington, DC 20502.
5. Date and place of birth: 4/29/60, Washington, DC.
6. Marital status: Married; Jane Overton Cobb.
7. Names and ages of children: Robert Watson Cobb, 10; Johnson
Hagood Cobb, 8; Calvin Hayes Cobb, 3.
8. Education: George Washington University National Law Center,
J.D.,1986; Vanderbilt University, B.A., cum laude, 1982; Landon School,
1968-1978.
9. Employment record: (1) Associate Counsel to the President,
Ethics Counsel, EEOB, Washington, DC (1/28/01-Present); (2) Associate
General Counsel, U.S. Office of Government Ethics, 1201 New York Ave.,
Washington, DC (2/19/92-1/27/01); (3) Ober, Kaler, Grimes & Shriver,
Washington, DC (9/86-2/92); (4) Work experience while at George
Washington: Intern for The Honorable Stanley Harris, United States
District Court (Fall 1985); Law clerk, Peterson, Young, Self & Asselin,
Atlanta, GA (Summer 1985); Intern, Division of Enforcement, Securities
and Exchange Commission (Spring 1985); Research Assistant, Joel
Seligman, Securities Law Professor (1984-1985); Law clerk, Beckett,
Cromwell & Myers, P.A., Bethesda, MD (Summer 1984); (5) Tennis
Professional/English Teacher, Taipei, Taiwan (Spring 1983); (6) Benson
Custom Masonry, Dickerson, MD (mason's assistant)(Fall 1982); (7)
Tennis Professional, Gibson Island Club, Gibson Island, MD (Summer
1982).
10. Government experience: N/A.
11. Business relationships: Cobb Family Partnership (family
vacation property); As an associate attorney at Ober, Kaler, Grimes &
Shriver, (1986-1992), I was involved in representing a number of
corporations, companies, partnerships and other institutions and
entities in litigation, business formation, contracts and other legal
services. I do not have a list or record of the entities that I was
involved in representing.
12. Memberships: Barristers of Washington University Club of
Washington Chevy Chase Club.
13. Political affiliations and activities: (a) N/A. (b) N/A. (c) N/
A.
14. Honors and awards: Seven Sustained Superior Performance Awards
(1993-1999) Quality Step Increase, Spot Cash Award (1999); Special
Award ``Stamps of Law'' presented by Mary Elcano, General Counsel, U.S.
Postal Service, for services to that agency in 1997-1998 (1998).
15. Published writings: I authored published opinions of the Office
of Government Ethics. These opinions would typically have been issued
by the Director of the Office and would have reflected no attribution
to me.
16. Speeches: I have no published speeches. I have given dozens of
presentations in my official capacity concerning standards of conduct,
conflicts of interest, the Federal ethics program, and the system in
the United States for handling corruption of public officials.
17. Selection: (a) I believe I was chosen because the President has
developed confidence in me as a person of integrity and independence in
handling the ethics portfolio in the White House, under the supervision
of the Counsel to the President, and based on my years of service as a
career attorney at the Office of Government Ethics. (b) I believe my
work as a Government attorney over the past 10 years and my other
experience qualifies me for the appointment to the position of
Inspector General at NASA. In particular, my work has been focused on
the implementation of the fundamental tenet of Government service--that
public service is a public trust, which all employees are required to
uphold.
As a Government ethics attorney, I have a comprehensive knowledge
of the criminal laws and rules governing employee conduct and extensive
experience in ensuring employee compliance with conduct requirements.
In fulfilling my duties as a Government ethics attorney, I have
worked on a range of issues. The contexts and factual predicates for my
work have provided me with on-the-job training on Government
operations, including organization of agencies, appropriations law,
public-private partnerships, Government contracts, personnel
organization, operations of Offices of Inspectors General, criminal and
administrative proceedings, and myriad other organizational and
operational concerns.
As an expert in conflicts of interest between employees and non-
Governmental entities, I have provided substantial advice on approaches
to relations between the Government and the non-Governmental entities.
I, therefore, have experience in the establishment of organizational
structures to address Government needs. This experience has been drawn
upon in my ethics role in the White House Office in terms of assuring
Administration compliance with applicable principles of appropriations
law and conflicts of interest requirements.
In managing the White House ethics program, I have been responsible
for the creation and administration of the White House program for
clearance of Presidential appointees' conflict of interest issues and
financial disclosure reports. In addition, I have established the
procedures and mechanisms associated with the filing and review of
public and confidential financial disclosure statements by White House
Office employees, training of employees on ethics matters, and the
provision of ethics advice in the White House.
B. FUTURE EMPLOYMENT RELATIONSHIPS
1. Will you sever all connections with your present employers,
business firms, business associations or business organizations if you
are confirmed by the Senate? Yes. (I will continue participation in the
Cobb Family Partnership, an ownership vehicle for my family (my parents
and their progeny) to own a piece of vacation property. I will also
continue as co-trustee of the Overton Family Trust, a trust established
by my father-in-law. No compensation or income is involved in either
the Partnership or the Trust.)
2. Do you have any plans, commitments or agreements to pursue
outside employment, with or without compensation, during your service
with the government? If so, explain. No.
3. Do you have any plans, commitments or agreements after
completing government service to resume employment, affiliation or
practice with your previous employer, business firm, association or
organization? No.
4. Has anybody made a commitment to employ your services in any
capacity after you leave government service? No.
5. If confirmed, do you expect to serve out your full term or until
the next Presidential election, whichever is applicable? Yes. I would
expect to serve into the next Presidential term in accordance with the
Inspector General Act.
C. POTENTIAL CONFLICTS OF INTEREST
1. Describe all financial arrangements, deferred compensation
agreements, and other continuing dealings with business associates,
clients or customers. N/A.
2. Indicate any investments, obligations, liabilities, or other
relationships which could involve potential conflicts of interest in
the position to which you have been nominated. I was informed that
holdings of General Electric, Microsoft and Sony Corporation could
present a conflict of interest, so I sold all holdings of those
companies.
3. Describe any business relationship, dealing, or financial
transaction which you have had during the last 10 years, whether for
yourself, on behalf of a client, or acting as an agent, that could in
any way constitute or result in a possible conflict of interest in the
position to which you have been nominated? None.
4. Describe any activity during the past 10 years in which you have
engaged for the purpose of directly or indirectly influencing the
passage, defeat or modification of any legislation or affecting the
administration and execution of law or public policy. None, other than
in my official capacity as an ethics attorney commenting on legislation
affecting ethics and ethics-related laws.
5. Explain how you will resolve any potential conflict of interest,
including any that may be disclosed by your responses to the above
items. (Please provide a copy of any trust or other agreements.) I will
take any and all steps to avoid conflicts of interest that are
identified either by myself or by ethics officials at NASA.
6. Do you agree to have written opinions provided to the Committee
by the designated agency ethics officer of the agency to which you are
nominated and by the Office of Government Ethics concerning potential
conflicts of interest or any legal impediments to your serving in this
position? Yes.
D. LEGAL MATTERS
1. Have you ever been disciplined or cited for a breach of ethics
for unprofessional conduct by, or been the subject of a compliant to
any court, administrative agency, professional association,
disciplinary committee, or other professional group? If so, provide
details. No.
2. Have you ever been investigated, arrested, charged or held by
any Federal, State, or other law enforcement authority for violation of
any Federal, State, county, or municipal law, regulation or ordinance,
other than a minor traffic offense? If so, provide details. No.
3. Have you or any business of which you are or were an officer
ever been involved as a party in interest in an administrative agency
proceeding or civil litigation? If so, provide details? No.
4. Have you ever been convicted (including pleas of guilty or nolo
contendere) of any criminal violation other than a minor traffic
offense? No.
5. Please advise the Committee of any additional information,
favorable or unfavorable, which you feel should be considered in
connection with your nomination. None.
E. RELATIONSHIP WITH COMMITTEE
1. Will you ensure that your department/agency complies with
deadlines set by congressional committees for information? Section
4(a)(5) of the Inspector General Act of 1978, Public Law 95-452, as
amended, 5 USC Appendix, (the IG Act), requires that the IG keep the
Congress fully and currently informed by means of the semiannual report
and otherwise, concerning problems and recommendations related to the
operations and functions of the Agency. This is a mandate to be taken
seriously and will be solemnly honored. I will do my utmost to ensure
that NASA is as responsive as possible to deadlines set by
congressional committees.
I am committed to a positive working relationship with
congressional committees and would work hard to satisfy congressional
informational requests.
2. Will you ensure that your department/agency does whatever it can
to protect congressional witnesses and whistle blowers from reprisal
for their testimony and disclosures? Section 7(c) of the IG Act forbids
reprisals against Agency whistleblowers. In addition, there are other
statutes that provide varying degrees of protection for whistleblowers
in various contexts. Section 2302(b) of title 5 of the United States
Code makes retaliation against whistleblowing a prohibited personnel
practice. The False Claims Act, 31 USC 3730(h) grants employees a
private right of action if they are reprised against in the context of
a false claims investigation. The Federal Acquisition Regulations (FAR)
subpart 3.9 also has provisions for the protection of contractor
employee whistleblowers. All of these provisions of law are utilized to
protect witnesses from reprisal for exercising their First Amendment
rights and their right to petition the Congress.
As an IG, I would be intolerant of any prohibited personnel
practices, including retaliation against whistleblowers. Where
warranted, referrals to the Office of Special Counsel will be made. (In
such cases, the OIG will dedicate such resources as are necessary to
assist the OSC in its handling of the referral.) In addition to the
public policy and legal issues associated with protecting
whistleblowers, as a practical matter it is imperative that the IG do
all it can to assist whistleblowers. This keeps the channels of
communication open to the IG organizations. If an IG is perceived as
not willing to protect whistleblowers, the free-flow of information
could dry up, making an IG less effective.
3. Will you cooperate in providing the Committee with requested
witnesses, to include technical experts and career employees with
firsthand knowledge of matters of interest to the Committee? Yes.
(Access to information about active criminal investigations and grand
jury proceedings may be limited, as required by law.)
4. Please explain how you will review regulations issued by your
department/agency, and work closely with Congress, to ensure that such
regulations comply with the spirit of the laws passed by Congress.
Under section 4(a)(2) of the IG Act, the IG is required to review
regulations of the agency. Inconsistency with existing law would be
brought to the attention of the drafter of the regulation. As IG, I
would ensure that the appropriate OIG staff review all proposed
regulations. If the Agency decides to go forward with a regulation
despite a significant nonconcurrence from the OIG, I would ensure that
the Administrator is notified before the regulation is finalized.
5. Describe your department/agency's current mission, major
programs, and major operational objectives. The National Aeronautics
and Space Administration (NASA) is charged by the National Space Act of
1958, as amended, with exercising the management of the nation's
civilian space programs and activities. NASA's objectives include the
exploration and use of outer space for the benefit of all humankind and
the dissemination of knowledge and information gained from exploration
activities. Its activities are generally focused in program and project
activities conducted by civil servants and contractor support. In
addition to general administrative functions, NASA's activities are
organized within five major areas of activity, or ``Enterprises:''
Space Science, Earth Science, Biological and Physical Sciences,
Aeronautics Technology, and the Human Exploration and Development of
Space. Programs currently underway within NASA include such major
programs as the Space Launch Initiative, the Space Shuttle Program, and
the International Space Station. The Agency currently faces significant
challenges in managing cost and accountability within its major
programs and implementing reforms and initiatives of the President's
Management Agenda.
6. Are you willing to appear and testify before any duly
constituted committee of the Congress on such occasions as you may be
reasonably requested to do so? Yes.
F. GENERAL QUALIFICATIONS AND VIEWS
1. How have your previous professional experience and education
qualified you for the position for which you have been nominated? I
believe my work as a Government ethics attorney over the past 10 years
and my other experience qualifies me for the appointment to the
position of Inspector General at NASA. In particular, my work has been
focused on the implementation of the fundamental tenet of Government
service--that public service is a public trust, which all employees are
required to uphold. As a Government ethics attorney, I have a
comprehensive knowledge of the criminal laws and rules governing
employee conduct and extensive experience in ensuring employee
compliance with conduct requirements. In fulfilling my duties as a
Government ethics attorney, I have worked on a range of issues. The
contexts and factual predicates for my work has provided me with on-
the-job training on Government operations including organization of
agencies, appropriations law, public-private partnerships, Government
contracts, personnel organization, operations of Offices of Inspectors
General, criminal and administrative proceedings, and myriad other
organizational and operational concerns. Combined with this experience
is my commitment, reflected in my work, to having Government operate in
a manner that is legal and faithful to the purposes for which it is
organized.
2. Why do you wish to serve in the position for which you have been
nominated? Public Service is an important part of my life and gives me
a sense of fulfillment that I do not believe is available in the
private sector. That fulfillment is attributable to a desire to make a
difference; to try to improve upon the systems upon which the American
people rely in having their needs, and in some instances, dreams,
fulfilled by their Government.
3. What goals have you established for your first 2 years in this
position, if confirmed? During my tenure as IG, I aspire to do the
following: to perform a functional and performance review of the OIG to
ensure that it is fulfilling all of the legal requirements of the IG
Act and related laws; to review OIG program activities to ensure that
OIG resources are being most efficiently utilized; to ensure that the
OIG is carrying out its mission to promote economy and efficiency in,
and to detect fraud, waste and abuse in, NASA operations; to ensure
that NASA's financial accounting systems are reliable and are
accessible for independent and positive evaluation of the agency's
financial condition and programs; to ensure that NASA's security
measures are adequate to counter terrorist threats and that the
agency's emergency preparedness programs are effective; to assist the
Administrator in ensuring the efficient management of NASA, and to
provide confidence to the President, Congress and the American taxpayer
that NASA operations and its management and administration are
generally efficient, and that inefficiencies are promptly identified
and remedied.
4. What skills do you believe you may be lacking which may be
necessary to successfully carry out this position? What steps can be
taken to obtain those skills? An ideal IG would be an expert in
accounting, auditing, financial analysis, law, management analysis,
public administration, and investigations, plus have the personal
skills to be able to effectively carry out the mandate of the office.
While I have been exposed to many of these disciplines and believe
myself to be an effective manager, I will rely upon the expertise of
the OIG staff, the President's Council on Integrity and Efficiency, and
take advantage of any other available resources to maximize my ability
to carry out the duties of the NASA IG.
5. Who are the stakeholders in the work of this agency? The primary
stakeholders of NASA are the American people and those who work on
their behalf, including the Administrator and the employees of the
agency, the President, and the Congress. Other stakeholders include the
aerospace research and development community, the aviation industry,
educational institutions, and international partners.
6. What is the proper relationship between your position, if
confirmed, and the stakeholders identified in question No. 10. Through
the framework of the IG Act and the administration of the office of the
OIG, the IG must be directly responsive to the stakeholders and be
accountable for the efficient management of the agency. By making
recommendations aimed at the effective use of agency resources and by
rooting out fraud, waste and abuse, the stakeholders will be served.
7. The Chief Financial Officers Act requires all government
departments and agencies to develop sound financial management
practices similar to those practiced in the private sector. (a) What do
you believe are your responsibilities, if confirmed, to ensure that
your agency has proper management and accounting controls? The IG is
responsible for auditing the Agency's financial statements in
accordance with the Chief Financial Officers Act, as amended. This can
be accomplished by the IG organization or by an external audit
organization determined by the IG. The IG must ensure that the quality
of the audit work performed meets generally accepted government
accounting standards and, where an outside auditor is used, contract
requirements as well. Part of this audit includes a review to
understand the internal controls and to assess the level of control
risk in the assertions embodied in the financial statements. The IG
must work with the Administrator to ensure that NASA's financial
accounting systems are reliable and are accessible for independent and
positive evaluation of the agency's financial condition and programs.
Apart from the financial statement audit, auditors generally strive to
perform an assessment of internal controls to understand the system and
its risks and to assess compliance with laws and regulations. Where
problems are identified, appropriate solutions and remedial steps will
be employed. (b) What experience do you have in managing a large
organization? In managing the White House ethics program, I have been
responsible for the creation and administration of the White House
program for clearance of Presidential appointees' conflict of interest
issues and financial disclosure reports. In addition, I have
established the procedures and mechanisms associated with the filing
and review of public and confidential financial disclosure statements
by White House Office employees, training of employees on ethics
matters, and the provision of ethics advice in the White House. The
role has also involved the establishment of guidance on ethics issues
applicable to all executive branch employees.
The White House ethics program touches every White House Office
employee and imposes obligations on every employee to be responsive to
the requirements of the program. The responsibility for managing the
program involves monitoring and ensuring White House Office employees'
compliance with program requirements. Managing this program requires
substantial interpersonal and communication skills.
Also as an expert on conflicts of interest, I have provided
substantial advice on approaches to relations between the Govermnent
and non-Governmental entities. I, therefore, have experience in the
establishment of organizational structures to address Government needs.
This experience has been drawn upon in my ethics role in the White
House Office in terms of assuring Administration compliance with
applicable principles of appropriations law and conflicts of interest
requirements.
In connection with the responsibilities associated with, the
clearance of Presidential appointments and the White House Office
ethics program, I have recruited and managed 15 career executive branch
employees (13 attorneys and 2 ethics program specialists) detailed to
the White House Office.
8. The Government Performance and Results Act requires all
government departments and agencies to identify measurable performance
goals and to report to Congress on their success in achieving these
goals. (a) Please discuss what you believe to be the benefits of
identifying performance goals and reporting on your progress in
achieving those goals. The identification of performance goals through
strategic planning and otherwise ensures that organizations focus on
the job that they are expected to perform and the framework and
resources for achieving those objectives. (b) What steps should
Congress consider taking when an agency fails to achieve its
performance goals? Should these steps include the elimination,
privatization, downsizing or consolidation of departments and/or
programs? Congress should consider whether the performance goals match
with legal and Congressional expectations of the organization involved.
Where an entity does not meet its objectives, Congress should, where
appropriate, evaluate the reason for the failure in fulfillment of its
general oversight responsibilities. Failure to achieve stated
objectives could result from management problems, inadequate resources,
unanticipated events, changes in priorities and any number of other
causes. Congress should take all steps in fulfillment of its
Constitutional role necessary to secure what, in its judgment, is in
the best interests of the American people. (c) What performance goals
do you believe should be applicable to your personal performance, if
confirmed? In my view, a basic outline of the performance goals of an
Inspector General is contained in the IG Act. To the extent the
requirements of the Act are not being met, an Inspector General is
accountable. An IG is also accountable to see that specific problems
that have been identified are addressed. Included in this is ensuring
that IG recommendations are incorporated into agency programs. A
measure of the success of IG recommendations would be the degree to
which efficiency and economy result from the recommendations in the
administration of an agency's programs.
9. Please describe your philosophy of supervisor/employee
relationships. Generally, what supervisory model do you follow? Have
any employee complaints been brought against you? Employees are the
primary resource a manager has in accomplishing a mission. Employees
must be motivated, they must be rewarded, they must be guided, and they
must be imbued with a sense of personal responsibility for the mission.
In my view, this is best accomplished by challenging employees by
having them execute responsibilities that extend to the boundaries of
their abilities. I believe that efficient accomplishment of this
mission requires that employees be told what is expected of them and
that they be allowed to execute their responsibilities in a way that
minimizes intervention by management. At each step of the management
chain, each employee is expected to fulfill the clearly defined
responsibilities of his or her portfolio, with minimal interference,
but with guidance and mentoring when necessary and with appropriate
consequences when agreed upon expectations are not met. In my view,
employees are challenged and gain fulfillment from taking personal
responsibility and executing a particular role. Managers are
responsible for challenging subordinates with assignments, but also to
ensure that assignments are appropriately made.
I believe in a teamwork approach that involves developing a sense
of mission and commitment to common goals and objectives. For teams to
work effectively, the objectives of the team need to be clearly
defined, and each team member's responsibilities in carrying out the
team mission also need to be clearly defined.
Lastly, I believe that the best form of leadership is leadership by
example. Managers should set high standards for themselves and hope and
expect that employees will follow the example set.
10. Describe your working relationship, if any, with the Congress.
Does your professional experience include working with committees of
Congress? If yes, please describe. I have had interaction with a number
of Congressional committees in connection with the appointment and
clearance process as an attorney at the Office of Government Ethics and
as Ethics Counsel in the White House. The vast majority of this contact
has been aimed at ensuring that Presidential appointees satisfy legal
conflict of interest requirements and any additional conduct or
conflict requirements that may be deemed appropriate by a particular
confirmation Committee.
11. Please explain what you believe to be the proper relationship
between yourself, if confirmed, and the Inspector General of your
department/agency. N/A.
12. Please explain how you will work with this Committee and other
stakeholders to ensure that regulations issued by your department/
agency comply with the spirit of the laws passed by Congress. In
addition to fulfilling the requirements of the IG Act, I would expect
to work directly with the staff of this Committee to ensure that the
Committee's concerns are addressed by the OIG and the agency.
Similarly, I would expect to work with the staff of other congressional
committees with oversight and jurisdictional interests over my office
and the agency. I anticipate that through a cooperative working
relationship with the Committees and the Administrator, the American
people, the ultimate stakeholder in NASA's operation, will be best
served.
13. In the areas under the department/agency's jurisdiction, what
legislative action(s) should Congress consider as priorities? Please
State your personal views. I am not reluctant to State my opinions and
personal views when I have them, but my views on how best to serve the
stakeholders through legislative action are undeveloped at this time.
Once in office, I look forward to assisting congressional committees in
identifying particular legislative solutions. I anticipate that safety
and security, managing cost growth in particular programs and overall
financial management at NASA will be areas of particular concern.
14. Within your area of control, will you pledge to develop and
implement a system that allocates discretionary spending based on
national priorities determined in an open fashion on a set of
established criteria? If not, please State why. If yes, please State
what steps you intend to take and a timeframe for their implementation.
Yes. For the OIG, discretionary spending is limited to a very small
portion of the OIG budget. I pledge to ensure that discretionary
spending is closely monitored and based on the stated and justifiable
needs of the OIG's office. With respect to the operations of NASA as a
whole, I believe that use of discretionary spending is an appropriate
area for OIG monitoring, and will take steps aimed at ensuring that
appropriate financial accounting is employed with respect to. such
spending and that such spending is efficient and effective toward
meeting the objectives of the agency.
Senator Wyden. Mr. Cobb, thank you, and I do have a number
of questions, so here we are. A few weeks ago, the beginning of
March, PriceWaterhouseCoopers puts out their independent audit
of the agency for fiscal year 2001, and basically their
conclusion is that you cannot audit the place, that things are
so out of control with respect to a lack of financial
documentation for some of the agency's transactions that they
basically are saying it is not auditable. It cannot be done.
They cannot really figure out the way this place works
financially. What are your reactions to what strikes me as a
pretty staggering finding?
Mr. Cobb. When I read the PriceWaterhouse letter, my
immediate reaction was, if you go through it paragraph by
paragraph, that one's only conclusion would be that, in terms
of financial management, that NASA's grade would be a zero if
you were looking at that letter alone.
I understand that PriceWaterhouse had the option to go with
an adverse opinion, which they did not elect to do, so it could
be worse than a zero, but I agree with you that that letter
stands as an embarrassment to NASA in terms of its financial
management, and it is something that warrants all due attention
from the agency, and including the Inspector General's Office,
to set the ship aright.
Senator Wyden. Given the fact that you are getting started,
and this is just to get a sense of how you are going to
proceed, how are you going to go drain the swamp? You have
basically just given them a grade of possibly less than zero.
You have got to get some time there to get your feet settled,
and I understand that. You are a good man. We are going to
support you and try to move your confirmation in a timely way.
How are you going to get after it the day you get confirmed,
given that this is an embarrassment, to use your words?
Mr. Cobb. Well, NASA OIG has a strong audit team to start
with, and they also have the responsibility for the contract,
the PriceWaterhouse contract, and they have the contracting
officer technical representative on their staff that has been
handling the day-to-day workings of the contract.
What I would intend to do is get an OIG senior team
assembled to keep constant and vigilant attention as to the
status of the PriceWaterhouse audit program, and in connection,
I think there is already ongoing interaction between the OIG,
the CFO, and PriceWaterhouse, but to maintain a focus on that
at the very highest level of the Office of Inspector General so
we can monitor it literally on a constant basis and take any
necessary actions to communicate with the administrator any
concerns that we have, and to make sure that the agency is
taking our recommendations seriously.
Senator Wyden. Now, the Act, the Inspector General Act
spells out essentially the duties of the Inspector General, and
obviously there are legitimate questions in terms of allocating
your time, but clearly part of those duties include conducting
and supervising independent and objective audits and
investigations relating to agency programs and operations.
Here again, extra points for candor. You have already said
to me and elsewhere you are not an accountant, but clearly
there is going to be a need for a tireless fiscal watch-dog to
get the agency in financial shape and ensure that it stays in
shape. Now, you talk about a team approach in your previous
answer to me. Now, is that going to be the sole focus of what
you do to try to get the place in financial shape, or are there
other steps that you think are warranted right now?
Mr. Cobb. Well, again, it is difficult for me to figure out
exactly what the best approach is, so the team is really to get
together to make sure that the OIG management is properly
focused on this as a significant and really the highest
priority in terms of what the Office of the Inspector General
will be involved in, in terms of there already is an existing
OIG framework for monitoring the contract and monitoring it in
conjunction with the management of NASA and PriceWaterhouse.
I certainly would be open to using any resources that were
available, and there are a number of different ways of getting
at problems at an agency like NASA. I know GAO has been active
especially in the International Space Station. They have
independent, or they have management mechanisms built in at
NASA to look at various issues, so I am going to use all the
resources that are available to me, and to the extent I feel I
am coming up short in terms of ideas, I am sure that I will
work closely with the Committee and the President's Council on
Integrity and Efficiency to make sure that all of the tools
that are available to me would be utilized in connection with
the financial management issues.
Senator Wyden. Let us talk for a minute about the
integrated financial management concept, how this is NASA's
third attempt since 1988 to put this together. The first two
attempts, 12 years time, reported $180 million, the agency
expects to complete the current system effort by 2007 at a cost
of $645 million.
Now, this whole exercise looks like the longest-running
battle since the Trojan War. I mean, it just looks like it is
going to go on and on and on. Can you tell us what you would
do, as Inspector General, to help end this marathon exercise
and actually achieve a useful, integrated financial system?
Mr. Cobb. Well, again, I have very limited understanding at
this point in time of exactly what the cause is of the failure
of the two prior attempts at integrated financial management.
My understanding is that it is complex because of the various
centers, the NASA centers running independently and not always
being totally appreciative of the efforts to have their
financial management systems brought into conformity with the
entire NASA program.
My understanding is that the current attempt at financial
integration is moving forward successfully. Specifically, to
me, where there would be an opportunity to take steps is to
make sure that the effort is being monitored closely, to the
extent that there are any problems identified that are a result
of intransigence or otherwise unwillingness on the part of any
particular center to accommodate the integrated financial
management system, to take appropriate steps to make sure that
management is aware of that, and that management follows up
with the recommendations of the IG's office.
Senator Wyden. We have been joined by my friend, the
distinguished Senator from Virginia. He and I work in a very
bipartisan way on all of these issues, and I appreciate all of
his involvement. I have just a couple of additional questions.
My inclination, I think, is I will ask these questions quickly,
and then just turn it over to you for both a statement and any
questions.
There are a couple of others on this round, Mr. Cobb. With
respect to computer security, the former Inspector General was
recognized as an individual who had a great interest in
computer fraud and computer security. You have got some very
good forensic analysts who have been critical in developing
cases against hackers who have attacked systems at NASA and
other Government agencies. How are you going to approach
computer security questions, and in particular make sure that
the expertise that has been developed at the agency is
continued?
Mr. Cobb. Well, the existing programs involving the
computer and technological crimes and the technological
services office at the OIG have become an important component
in the OIG's fight against crime, cyber crime in particular,
and at this point in time I must say it is premature for me to
evaluate any given program in the Office of Inspector General,
but I would not come to the position with any preconceived
notions on whether there was any action, or whether there was
any building up of resources that would need to take place in
connection with any given program, but my impression is that
this has been an extraordinarily effective mechanism within the
Office of Inspector General to deal with the criminal issues
that have been, in terms of hacking and other cyber crime, and
I would be happy to assure the Committee that I would continue
to make sure that those resources were applied to preventing
those types of problems.
Senator Wyden. One last question for this round. I think
when you look at the history of the agency and the debate about
the agency and its priorities, one of the things that you
always hear, it is a recurring kind of theme, is that any time
you go after expenditures, and particularly areas where there
is documented waste and inefficiency, somebody says, ``Well,
you are going to hurt safety, this is going to be bad for
safety.'' As I said at Mr. O'Keefe's confirmation hearing, in
my view cutting fat does not mean cutting corners on safety,
and I have just got to believe that NASA has got the talent to
come up with new ways of doing things, new ways of making the
agency more efficient, that are also safe ways of doing them.
One of the things that was striking is, you have had a great
interest over the years in risk management, and innovation.
How do you approach this question of trying to strike the
balance where you come up with new ways of approaching issues
and solving problems while at the same time not compromising
the safety that all of us care about for the patriots who serve
our country?
Mr. Cobb. My perspective on this is--and I guess I am
inherently cynical, as my family members can attest.
Senator Wyden. They are smiling.
Mr. Cobb. I am going to say, ``show me''. There is a
science to risk management, and there are costs associated with
risk management, and to the extent that a program pursuant to
an IG recommendation or a management recommendation, that
people are claiming that somehow that safety is going to be
compromised, I am going to demand and expect that people
explain exactly what they mean by that, and what would the cost
be to make sure that the change in the program does meet the
risk tolerances that management establishes in connection with
NASA programs.
So I think it might be easy for people to say, ``Well, any
change in any particular program is going to result in some
safety issues,'' and presumably that is correct, but there is a
cost associated, and it would be incumbent on management in
particular to know what the cost is that is associated with the
change.
Senator Wyden. Senator Allen.
STATEMENT OF HON. GEORGE ALLEN,
U.S. SENATOR FROM VIRGINIA
Senator Allen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am sorry for
being late. I was meeting on another technology subject, and I
was listening to the questions you were asking. You have
already asked all the questions, even the last one I had. I
could tell you already had the first three, and you even got to
the last one.
I want to make a brief opening comment about this position
and NASA generally and get some of your views on it, Mr. Cobb.
I was actually reading through your statement here. Folks of
South Carolina must have been very forgiving if you had someone
who served in the Maine infantry during the War between the
States and elected family members in all sorts of positions,
and so you certainly have bloodlines who have served remarkably
throughout the history of our country, not just then, but
subsequent as well.
In this hearing I think it is important for us not to look
at the past, but to look at the future, and the future of our
country will be in large part due to our advancements and
leadership in the area of technology, and particularly where
NASA is involved, the first day of aeronautics, much of what
you would be doing is looking at the efficiency and cutting
back on waste and so forth, and that is a very important
principle.
We need to be looking for scientific excellence, and you
will get more excellence as you have more money actually being
utilized for something productive and useful, and new
developments, new technologies, whether it is civilian or
military.
We are all very impressed with NASA. We have had hearings
previously with Mr. O'Keefe and last year as well on the fine,
outstanding people who work at NASA. The greatest resource of
NASA is the people, and we need to make sure that we keep that
in aeronautics and in space, and keep that fiscal
responsibility with the taxpayer's dollars.
Now, as far as aeronautics, I think it is absolutely
essential, even after September 11, for us to make sure that we
do keep our lead, but we had a hearing last year when I was
actually chairman of the Subcommittee, before Mr. Jeffords went
to the other side. At any rate, it was on the issue of
aeronautics research, and there was a lot of concern about our
technological edge in aeronautics being challenged, for
example, by the Europeans, and the aviation industry, if you
look at the importance of the aviation industry to our country,
it is a net exporter. It is one of our best exporting aspects
for balance of trade, and obviously our preeminence is
important for good-paying jobs in our country.
Now, NASA's aerospace technology enterprise and the Langley
Research Center, they are engaged in developing innovative
technologies, many of which have been adopted, and they are
beneficial for the aviation industry, and their research is not
just revolutionary, it is also evolutionary in the way that
they look at it, and whether that is for advanced warning of
wind shear, or designing advanced traffic management systems,
which I know the chairman and I both share a great concern
about, and that is exactly one of the things that are needed. I
am glad Reagan National is finally getting fully operational,
but there are technologies that can help us with our security,
and NASA is involved in some of that research, as well as
developing what are called morphing wing vehicles for future
aviation use.
Now, this research is going to lead to greater aviation
safety. It will reduce accidents and fatalities, obviously, and
I look forward to working with you as Inspector General to
ensure that the aeronautics program is run efficiently to
maximize the return of the taxpayer's investment.
Now, to the extent you get in, and I know you are answering
questions, and I saw your comments as far as the Space Station,
there is a concern that all the cost overruns at the Space
Station are, of course, eating away, or taking away from other
very important missions of NASA in the aeronautics and other
space endeavors in research, and so what you do, making those
very important decisions and recommendations to us and to the
administration as to what is worthwhile, what is going to get
us the most use for our dollars, or where there could be
improvements would be very closely listened to and I think will
be very important.
I would be interested in hearing how you would suggest that
NASA address the issues regarding human capital, if you could,
because one thing that also came up out of those hearings last
year on aeronautics is that the age of the people who are
working in NASA, many of the engineers and scientists are--they
are not right next to retirement, but they are generally older,
and not that far from retirement, and when you lose that sort
of capacity, when you understand that the human capital is the
greatest asset of NASA, and that experience and knowledge and
capability, how are we going to be able to attract more--
obviously, I would think you would need to work with the
colleges and the universities, also in the private sector, to
attract people into that research, seeing a worthwhile
endeavor, or a fulfillment of a life work and also as a career
for an individual.
I would hope that you would have some ideas as to how we
can work to attract the best to be those innovators for the
future, which is good for our country, good for our quality of
life, good for our security, and clearly also vital for our
economy as well.
So with that, I will conclude, and ask Moose--is that your
nickname, Moose?
Mr. Cobb. Yes, sir. Good afternoon, Senator. I do go by
Moose.
Senator Allen. Did you already get him on Moose?
Senator Wyden. Yes.
Senator Allen. That must be the Maine in you.
Mr. Cobb. Many of the points that you make relate to
overall policy in terms of how NASA will be operating in the
future as far as the human capital issues, and I guess for me,
or for a person who is in the role of IG, being attentive to
the interest of the policymakers, and the U.S. Congress in
particular, and management in terms of what are particular
problems at NASA and what are the long-term problems are
appropriate issues for the tools of the OIG to be used in
evaluation.
So, for example, in the area of human capital, it is a
subject of wide attention, Government-wide in terms of the
crisis of human capital. NASA has certain advantages that it
brings to the human capital area, being at the forefront of
science and technology, and it is an honor for any person to be
associated and affiliated with NASA, but bringing the tools of
the OIG to focus on, in terms of audits or investigations of
NASA's needs would be used to identify issues in connection
with, for example, human capital in the area of aeronautics,
and other science and technology programs that NASA has. Again,
to me what is important for policymakers, to be able to make
the right decisions they need to have sound financial
management, transparent systems, so that policymakers can look
at the books and say, ``OK, this makes sense and this does
not.''
Similarly, I think that in connection with all of NASA's
programs, that confidence of the public is shaken when they
find that there are financial management issues, or
alternatively that there are issues in terms of the contracting
process, and obviously when you are talking about aeronautics
and other major programs at NASA the contracting and
procurement issues that can undermine the agency would be a
focus of the OIG.
Senator Allen. Well, I would say, Mr. Chairman, I have read
through Mr. Cobb's qualifications, more than just his
genealogy, and I find this gentleman to be more than qualified,
in fact highly qualified.
I think you are going to have probably one of the tougher
jobs, but also the most important job. You have the
qualifications, you have the background, you have the learning,
and the experience, but in your answer in the midst of it,
while just trying to determine what are your principles, I
think you most importantly have an understanding of how
important it is that NASA be run as properly as possible.
Every estimate is not going to be accurate. That is just
the nature of scientific research and development matters, but
I do think that the public's confidence and the credibility of
NASA is important as we make decisions, and also I think you
respect the role that the elected people have, those of us in
the Senate, in making decisions based on information, that I
think that the information we receive from you will be
credible. It will not be gilded, it will be straightforward,
and I look forward to working with you, Mr. Cobb, and thank you
for your continuing service to your country.
Mr. Cobb. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Wyden. I thank my colleague, and he makes a number
of points that I agree with, and in fact I think the only other
question I have would really pick up on an area you touched on,
and that is really the sort of evaluative process.
I mean, you are going to be there, and you are going to be
trying to conduct some of these evaluations and assessments in
areas that do not lend themselves to kind of cookie-cutter
kinds of approaches, and I would be curious, just by way of how
you think through these issues, what kind of evaluative
processes do you think would be appropriate for areas like R&D?
I mean, that is an area that both of us are strongly
supportive of, and we are going to support investments in this
area and have already in many areas of science and technology
policy, and at the same time we have got to explain to the
people of Virginia and the people of Oregon who are putting
their money out, what they are getting for it. Tell me, if you
would, how you might go about getting your arms around
evaluating R&D expenditures.
Mr. Cobb. Well, I can tell you what my approach would be
without having had the benefit of being in a position where
that was a responsibility. First, conceptually, my presumption
is that the policymakers are making the right calls in terms of
what expenditures, what are the right projects to invest the
taxpayer's money in, and so my disposition would not be to
favor one program over another, because the policymakers are
making the calls.
My purpose and focus would be on whether or not the
instruments pursuant to which R&D funds are utilized, that the
detailed mechanisms that an agency like NASA has, and the
procedures it has for spending the taxpayer's money are being
followed, and that the financial management systems that
account for the use of the taxpayer's money are in place so
that I or you or the public may look at the books and say,
``OK, this is how our policy decision has been carried out,''
and we can see exactly what it is costing, and we can see
exactly what we are getting for that money, and so I would use
the tools.
Now, in terms of the very capable staff that currently is
at the Office of Inspector General, I have no question but that
they would have a number of ideas also in terms of how an issue
such as R&D, and what is not only the appropriate expenditure,
but how it is being carried out should be considered, and in
addition to that, to the extent that there is additional
resources that I need to draw upon again, there is the
President's council on integrity and efficiency and IGs at
other agencies with the same types of problems whose knowledge
I would be happy to draw upon in trying to get at the bottom of
a question like that.
Senator Wyden. The two of us are going to continue the
bipartisan tradition and support you, and we are going to work
to get you confirmed, and I think you will speak very well for
our Government, and your work, as Senator Allen noted, is
especially important right now, so Godspeed. We wish your
family well. Everybody can figure out the restaurant you are
going to go to tonight to celebrate.
Is there anything you would like to add further, Mr. Cobb?
Mr. Cobb. No. I would just like to thank you both, and
assure you that I will give this job my very best in doing what
is right by the taxpayer.
Senator Wyden. We look forward to seeing you confirmed.
The Committee is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 3:15 p.m., the Committee adjourned.]
A P P E N D I X
Prepared Statement of Hon. John McCain, U.S. Senator from Arizona
Mr. Chairman, I want to thank you and Chairman Hollings for calling
today's hearing. I appreciate your willingness to work with myself and
others on this Committee to schedule this confirmation hearing in a
timely manner.
Mr. Cobb, I welcome you. Your nomination comes at a critical time
for NASA. Together with Administrator O'Keefe, you will be challenged
with resolving NASA's many management and technical challenges.
I would like to emphasize the importance of getting accurate and
complete information from NASA. In the past, the Young report, and even
Administrator O'Keefe, have expressed their frustration with getting
vital financial cost information from NASA. The recent Pricewaterhouse
Coopers' audit of NASA stated that NASA was unable to provide
sufficient documentation for amounts capitalized to the International
Space Station, among other problems. Time and again, I have expressed
my concerns that key decisionmakers, including Congress, are not
receiving the necessary information required to make well-informed
decisions.
This year, NASA will have to make some critical decisions on the
future of the International Space Station, its research centers, the
Space Launch Initiative, and many other program areas. It is my hope
that these decisions will be based on the best possible information
available.
Mr. Cobb, as the Inspector General, if confirmed, your role as the
on-site ``police'' will keep you busy. It is my expectation that you
will continue the excellent work that you have been providing to the
President as Associate Counsel to the President.
A coherent agenda for the agency is also important. I look forward
to working with you and Administrator O'Keefe to further define the
agency's vision and implementing strategy. We must also begin to
develop a larger plan for research and exploration to ensure that the
systems that we develop today meet the requirements of tomorrow.
Again, thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this hearing. Also, let
me thank the nominee for his many years of public service. I commend
you for your willingness to continue in public service. I look forward
to quick action on this excellent nominee.