[Senate Hearing 110-433] [From the U.S. Government Printing Office] S. Hrg. 110-433 CONFIRMATION HEARING ON THE NOMINATION OF GRACE C. BECKER TO BE ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR THE CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION ======================================================================= HEARING before the COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY UNITED STATES SENATE ONE HUNDRED TENTH CONGRESS SECOND SESSION __________ MARCH 11, 2008 __________ Serial No. J-110-79 __________ Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 42-266 PDF WASHINGTON DC: 2008 --------------------------------------------------------------------- For Sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office Internet: bookstore.gpo.gov Phone: toll free (866) 512-1800; (202) 512�091800 Fax: (202) 512�092104 Mail: Stop IDCC, Washington, DC 20402�090001 COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY PATRICK J. LEAHY, Vermont, Chairman EDWARD M. KENNEDY, Massachusetts ARLEN SPECTER, Pennsylvania JOSEPH R. BIDEN, Jr., Delaware ORRIN G. HATCH, Utah HERB KOHL, Wisconsin CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa DIANNE FEINSTEIN, California JON KYL, Arizona RUSSELL D. FEINGOLD, Wisconsin JEFF SESSIONS, Alabama CHARLES E. SCHUMER, New York LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois JOHN CORNYN, Texas BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland SAM BROWNBACK, Kansas SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island TOM COBURN, Oklahoma Bruce A. Cohen, Chief Counsel and Staff Director Stephanie A. Middleton, Republican Staff Director Nicholas A. Rossi, Republican Chief Counsel C O N T E N T S ---------- STATEMENTS OF COMMITTEE MEMBERS Page Hatch, Hon. Orrin G., a U.S. Senator from the State of Uath...... 3 Kennedy, Hon. Edward M., a U.S. Senator from the State of Massachusetts.................................................. 1 Leahy, Hon. Patrick J., a U.S. Senator from the State of Vermont, prepared statement............................................. 196 Specter, Hon. Arlen, a U.S. Senator from the State of Pennsylvania................................................... 2 STATEMENT OF THE NOMINEE Becker, Grace C., of New York, Nominee to be Assistant Attorney General for the Civil Rights Division, Department of Justice... 5 Questionnaire................................................ 6 QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS Responses of Grace C. Becker to questions submitted by Senators Durbin, Feingold, Kennedy, Leahy, Schumer, Specter and Whitehouse..................................................... 71 SUBMISSION FOR THE RECORD Warner, Hon. John, a U.S. Senator from the State of Virginia, prepared statement............................................. 199 NOMINATION OF GRACE C. BECKER, OF NEW YORK, TO BE ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR THE CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION, DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE ---------- TUESDAY, MARCH 11, 2008 U.S. Senate, Committee on the Judiciary, Washington, DC The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:42 p.m., in room SD-106, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Edward M. Kennedy, presiding. Present: Senators Feingold, Schumer, Cardin, Whitehouse, Specter, and Hatch. Also present: Grace C. Becker. OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. EDWARD M. KENNEDY, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF MASSACHUSETTS Senator Kennedy. Good afternoon. The Committee will come to order. Thank you for your patience here this afternoon. Ms. Becker, good afternoon, and welcome to the Committee. You've been nominated to head the Civil Rights Division. The Division is one of the most importance agencies in the Federal Government. It serves as the government's public and private voice on civil rights. Its historic mission has been to protect the civil rights of all Americans, especially those who are the most vulnerable, and help our Nation live up to our ideals of opportunity and justice for all. Fifty years ago, the Division was created to provide more rigorous protection of civil rights. Since then, Justice Department lawyers have been in the forefront of civil rights struggles. The Division was at the forefront of battles to desegregate schools and open the doors of opportunity to all children; it led the charge to protect voting rights and fair housing, and to break down the glass ceilings that unfairly limit opportunities in workplaces for women, minorities, and persons with disabilities. Today's civil rights challenges are difference from those of the past. New forms of discrimination replace the ``Whites Only'' signs of the past. We know that civil rights are still the unfinished business of America and if we are not vigilant we will lose ground, so there is a need for a strong Civil Rights Division to continue the progress that we have been making. Unfortunately, in this administration the Division has failed to live up to its historic role. The Division that helped bring Jim Crow to his knees has now backed away from fully enforcing civil rights. Press reports and congressional oversight hearings on the Division have shown that in recent years politics has often dictated outcomes and civil rights enforcement suffered. Equally disturbing, the Division's political leaders supplied political tests to career professionals and let partisan considerations affect personal decisions ranging from hiring to case assignments and evaluation. Much of this conduct is still under investigation by the Inspector General in the Office of Professional Responsibility. The next Attorney General for Civil Rights will need to restore the Division's tarnished image and reassure the American people that their civil rights are being fully and fairly protected. The public must be confident that politics no longer trumps law enforcement and that the Division has the strong leadership needed to correct the recent problems. I look forward to today's hearing and to your testimony on these important issues. Ms. Becker, as the Acting Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights, you previously served from 2006-2007 as the Deputy Attorney General in the Division of an Associate Deputy General Counsel for the Department of Defense. She is an alumnae of this Committee and served as counsel to Senator Hatch from 2003 to 2005, and we welcome Senator Hatch here this afternoon. She has also been an Assistant General Counsel of the U.S. Sentencing Commission and an attorney in the Criminal Division of the Department of Justice. We will hear from Senator Specter, and then we will welcome any comments from our friend and colleague and Committee member, Senator Hatch, before we hear from the witness. STATEMENT OF HON. ARLEN SPECTER, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA Senator Specter. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I join the Chairman in welcoming you here, Ms. Grace Chung Becker. You come to this nomination with outstanding academic and professional background. I note you are a magna cum laude graduate of the University of Pennsylvania, a very fine school. I have a little knowledge as to what it takes to be magna cum laude there. Magna also from Georgetown University Law Center. You clerked for two very distinguished Federal judges. You had extensive experience in the Department of Justice, and as previously noted, working in the Civil Rights Division as Deputy Assistant Attorney General and Acting Assistant Attorney General. As a member of a minority yourself, I think you have some special insights into the issues and into the problems. There is no doubt about the tremendous importance of the Civil Rights Division. As that Division has moved from one form of discrimination to another, it requires a great deal of vigilance and is a very, very important department. I would ask unanimous consent that a statement by Senator John Warner be included in the record, and look forward to your testimony. Senator Kennedy. It will be so included, and a statement of Senator Leahy. [The prepared statements of Senator Warner and Senator Leahy appear as submissions for the record.] Senator Kennedy. Ms. Becker, are you sure you want Senator Hatch to introduce you? [Laughter.] Ms. Becker. I proudly sit next to Senator Hatch. Senator Kennedy. We welcome friend and colleague Senator Hatch. We are delighted to hear from you. STATEMENT OF HON. ORRIN G. HATCH, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF UTAH Senator Hatch. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Grace, I have to say that you have two of the finest advocates of civil rights in the history of this country who are chairing and Ranking Member on this Committee today. I have such tremendous respect for them. But first of all, let me thank Senator Leahy, the Judiciary Committee Chairman, for scheduling this hearing, as well as you, Senator Kennedy, for taking time to chair the hearing, and my dear friend as well, Senator Specter. I am proud to introduce to the Committee Grace Chung Becker, an outstanding nominee to be Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights. I will take just a few minutes to introduce her, both professionally and personally. Grace is currently the Acting Assistant Attorney General, as has been said, for Civil Rights and has helped to lead the Civil Rights Division since 2006, first as a Deputy Assistant Attorney General. She received her B.A. from the University of Pennsylvania and her B.S. from the Wharton School of Finance, each of them magna cum laude. She received her J.D. from Georgetown, where she was elected to the Order of the Coif, which is the highest honor you can get in law school. By the way, she also received that degree magna cum laude. I think I see a pattern here. With the exception of 1 year as an associate with the well-known law firm of Williams & Connelly, Grace has spent her career in public service in all three branches of government. She clerked for U.S. District Judge Thomas Penfield Jackson and U.S. Circuit Judge James Buckley, both here in the District of Columbia. Grace has served in the Department of Justice as a trial attorney in the Criminal Division, as Special Assistant U.S. Attorney, and as Deputy Assistant Attorney General. Her executive branch tenure also includes serving as Associate General Counsel at the Department of Defense. Before returning to the Justice Department, Grace served for 6 years as Assistant General Counsel for the U.S. Sentencing Commission, as has been mentioned. It was during that period that she was detailed here to the Senate Judiciary Committee, where she served as counsel when I chaired the Committee during the 108th Congress. I believe that 15 current members of the Committee were here at that time and will no doubt remember Grace's excellent work and dedication. So, Mr. Chairman, Grace has served in all three branches of the Federal Government and already has extensive experience with the Department of Justice, including service in the very position to which she has been nominated. Turning from the professional to the personal, Grace was born in New York City, the first person in her family to be born in the United States. Her parents, both naturalized American citizens, and Grace's three siblings are all entrepreneurs in the New York/New Jersey area. I understand that her extended family is here to support her today. Grace's parents showed her the importance of hard work by their consistent example, and she followed their advice that education is critical to success. As a result, Grace is living the American dream and reaping the fruit of character, hard work, education, and integrity. She and her husband Brian have been married since 1994 and they have two children, who are also here today. Grace is also then proud of her Korean heritage, and has served on the Board of Korean-American Coalition, and on the Fairfax County School Board's Human Rights Advisory Committee. Finally, Mr. Chairman, let me add a more personal word. I have personally been blessed, during my 31 years in this body, to have had many able, smart, and dedicated staff. But I want to say, with no disrespect intended for anyone else, that Grace is one of the best. Her energy, intelligence, integrity, and the quality of her character led me to really rely on her and to trust her judgment when she worked on my staff. Her work here in the Senate truly enhanced the quality of her service to the American people. Personally, I was sad to see her leave here, but confident that she would bring the same qualities to the Department of Justice. She certainly has not disappointed me. I know that the Department of Justice in general, and the Civil Rights Division in particular, have generated some controversy in the last 2 years. I hope that, as we move to approve new leadership there, we can focus on the fine person before us. I have no doubt that anyone who looks at her considerable merit will see that all Americans are fortunate to have her in this position. Her background, education, experience, and character make this one of President Bush's best appointments. So I hope that we can complete the confirmation process and give her the unanimous vote of confidence that she deserves. Mr. Chairman, this is a really fine person. I have never seen an instance where she was not acting in the best interests of our country and doing the best of her abilities, which are, as you can easily see, very considerable. So I am very proud to sit by you, Grace, and to recommend you to this Committee, and especially to these two leaders who, as I have said before, are two of the greatest leaders in the history of the Congress on civil rights. I thank you, Mr. Chairman, for granting me this time. Senator Kennedy. Ms. Becker, would you be good enough to stand and raise your right hand? [Whereupon, the nominee was duly sworn.] Senator Kennedy. Thank you very much. Congratulations. I have been troubled by the numerous reports in recent years that partisan politics has infected the personnel decisions in the Civil Rights Division. Bradley Schlossman, a former official in the Division, told the Committee that he bragged about hiring Republicans. He also tried to transfer three minority women out of the Appellate Section involuntarily because he felt they were too liberal. Even though all of them had served successfully for years, he said he wanted to replace them with ``good Americans''. A Deputy Chief of the Voting Section who had served with distinction in the Department for 25 years was transferred involuntarily to a dead-end training job after he and other career attorneys recommended raising a Voting Rights Act objection to a Georgia photo ID law that had been pushed through by State Republicans. The law was later blocked by the courts, which compared it to a poll tax. I will withhold here. Would you like to introduce your family? STATEMENT OF GRACE CHUNG BECKER OF NEW YORK, NOMINEE TO BE ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR THE CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION, DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE Ms. Becker. I welcome the opportunity. Senator Kennedy. All right. Please. Ms. Becker. Thank you very much, Senator Kennedy. I have today behind me, and I guess slightly to your left, my husband, Brian Becker and our two children, my daughter, Kira Becker, who is 10 years old, and my son, Scott Becker, who is 7 years old. Senator Kennedy. Are they missing school today? Ms. Becker. They went for half a day and they are both missing a few teeth, though, of relative recent vintage. [Laughter.] On the other side of them is my mother, Judith Chung. Senator Kennedy. Good. Ms. Becker. Over here to your right is my father, Hai Joon Chung. Senator Kennedy. Fine. Ms. Becker. My brother, David Chung, his son, my nephew, Peter Chung. And then in the second row is my brother David's wife, Erica Chung. Then my cousin, Karen Becker, is also in the second row. Then on the back, going across on this side is my niece, Sun A Yoon, and a dear family friend who has really been like an uncle to me, Lak Moon Chung. Senator Kennedy. Very good. You are all very welcome. Should we get the coloring books out? [Laughter.] Smart young people here. Very good. Is there any comment that you would like to make at the start? Ms. Becker. Just to thank the President and the Attorney General for the nomination and support, and to thank my family members for all of their personal and financial sacrifices so that I could be here today, sir. 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Fine. Thank you. I was asking about the Civil Rights Division and the challenge of partisan politics, and had mentioned that Bradley Schlossman had bragged about hiring Republicans, and mentioned about three minority women who had been transferred involuntarily, then a Deputy Chief of the Voting Section, who had served 25 years, transferred involuntarily to a dead-end training job after raising the Georgia voting rights case. The Boston Globe also reported that, beginning in 2003, an increasing proportion of attorneys hired in three key sections of the Division were members of the Republican National Lawyers Association and other conservative groups, and that the number of new hires with civil rights experience plunged. That was a report in the Boston Globe. Many career section chiefs were removed, other career professionals were transferred, denied assignments, and found working in the Division so difficult that they left. So the improper injection of political concerns in a personnel matter has devastated morale and undermined the Division's mission and reputation. Federal law clearly prohibits a political litmus test for career civil service employees, and these matters currently are being investigated by the Division's Inspector General and the Office of Professional Responsibility. It is essential that the next head of the Division show leadership in correcting this problem. You were in the Division when some of these problems occurred. You headed the Division since December of 2007, so the public is entitled to learn what you knew about this and whether you have done anything to correct the problems. Ms. Becker. Thank you for the question, Senator Kennedy. As you know, I was a career attorney for over a decade before I ever came to the Civil Rights Division. Let me reassure you and this Committee that I do not engage in politicized hiring, that I have made it clear to my managers in the Civil Rights Division that I will not tolerate politicized hiring. The allegations--many of the allegations that you raise occurred prior to the time that I arrived in the Civil Rights Division in March of 2006. Mr. Schlossman was transitioning out of the Division at the time that I was starting, so I do not overlap with him for any substantial amount of time. But I can assure you, as a person who's been a career attorney, at the Department of Justice and all over the Federal Government, that I know the value of career attorneys. I know the value of ensuring, maintaining, and facilitating open and robust pre-deliberative conversations, because I think that makes for good litigation decisions at the end of the day. Senator Kennedy. Well, let me ask, did you, in any of the time that you were in there--you headed the Division since December 1907--come across these types of activities? Ms. Becker. Senator, I am aware of the general allegations and that they are being investigated right now by the Office of Professional Responsibility and the Office of Inspector General, but I am not aware of any new allegations since the time between December 1907 and today. But you didn't participate in any questioning of any potential hirees and ask them political questions? Ms. Becker. Absolutely not, sir. Senator Kennedy. In 2002, the Department changed its hiring procedures to give political appointees the final say in the process. It's my understanding that at least in some cases political appointees in the Division still conduct the final interviews of applicants for career attorney positions. Is that correct? Ms. Becker. Senator, we have a collaborative approach within the Civil Rights Division, where the political and the career managers work together to review resumes and interview applicants. Senator Kennedy. Well, are there instances where the final interviews of applicants for career positions, those judgments and decisions are being made by political appointees? Ms. Becker. It's a collective process, Senator. The decision to hire any attorney at the Civil Rights Division is one that, you know, we take very seriously. Senator Kennedy. Describe ``collective process'' in this. I mean, evidently there are circumstances where the political appointee is doing the interview for an attorney, for their position. I assume from your answer that that is the case, that does happen. Does it happen or doesn't it happen? Ms. Becker. Everybody participates in the interview process, career attorneys and political managers. Senator Kennedy. Well, political managers-- Ms. Becker. Political appointed managers, I should say. Senator Kennedy. All right. Well, in some cases it's career--I'm just trying to get the answers. So I understand in some places that career appointees do the interviews and in other places political appointees do. Ms. Becker. And sometimes they're done jointly, sir. Senator Kennedy. OK. Ms. Becker. It depends upon the schedule-- Senator Kennedy. All right. Some are done jointly. My question is, with regard to the political appointees, then what happens? They do the interview and they do what? After they make a judgment, then they do what? Ms. Becker. We have--we have discussions and we try to reach consensus, Senator. Senator Kennedy. And you're going to continue that process if you are approved, or are you going to leave the hiring questions up to career? Ms. Becker. Senator, as someone who has been a career employee, I can tell you what I look for in a potential candidate. Senator Kennedy. I'm not asking what you're looking for. I want an answer to the question. Are you going to permit political appointees to make judgments or are you going to have career people do the hiring? Ms. Becker. I believe this consensus collaborative approach has been working well during the two years that I've been at the Civil Rights Division, Senator. At this point I'm not planning to make any changes. Senator Kennedy. Well, the answer then is that you're going to continue to permit political appointees to make judgments in terms of the hiring of career officers. I'm just trying to get the record straight here. It'll be a part of a process. You say they'll talk to other people in making final judgments. But you're not prepared to give the assurances, given the background that we've had in the Department, that in terms of the new hires, that those judgments in the Civil Rights Division, their interviews are going to be done by career personnel? Ms. Becker. Those interviews currently are being done by career personnel. They are a very large part of the process. I take very strong--I weigh very heavily the recommendations of the career attorneys in the Civil Rights Division. But as deputies in the front office do manage these sections, Senator, and do supervise the sections, so long as they are not taking political affiliations into account, which is prohibited, and I made that entirely clear to my staff, there--I believe that there is an appropriate role for the managers to play, sir. Senator Kennedy. Have political appointees ever interviewed applicants without career attorneys being present? Ms. Becker. Senator, I do not know. We usually have a process. The section chiefs can choose whether or not they want to interview with their--the other individuals in the section or if they'd like to come over to main Justice and interview with the-- Senator Kennedy. Well, what are you going to do if you get approved? Will you insist that if they're going to follow this up, where you're going to have political appointees doing the interviews, that there are going to be at least career attorneys present? Ms. Becker. Senator, I leave it up to the section chiefs to choose and to work with them. As long as everybody gets a chance to interview, I always think of an inclusive process. So if they'd like, they're always welcome to come to an interview where a manager in the front office is interviewing them. Senator Kennedy. Now, since you joined the Division have you ever required section chiefs to obtain permission from your office before hiring interns? Ms. Becker. I believe they do notify the front office for that. Yes, that's correct. Senator Kennedy. What is the reason for that? For what reason? Why do they have to do that? Ms. Becker. It's a managerial function, as I understand it, Senator, the process that was in place when I arrived there. It's--it's--it's not--it's not a particularly vigorous one. It's--it's one that we--we do as a--as a management duty, like all of our other management duties, sir. Senator Kennedy. Have you--since you joined the Division, have you ever suggested a candidate be considered for a career position, even though the candidate had not applied through the regular application process? Ms. Becker. Senator, I believe all of the resumes that we receive, we send to the--to admin. if we get them out of the normal process, or we tell the applicants to send it to admin., which is the through--the way it normally is handled. Some people incorrectly mail--send things directly to us in the front office. Senator Kennedy. Well, I gather then from what you're saying, is that there have not been candidates that have not gone through the--that haven't been--that have four career positions, I gather from what you're saying that there haven't been any individuals that have joined the Division that have not gone through the--the whole interview process. Is that right? Ms. Becker. To my knowledge, sir, yes. Senator Kennedy. Since you joined the Division, have you suggested a candidate be considered for a career position who had been referred to you by a current or former political appointee? Ms. Becker. Not that I recall, no. Senator Kennedy. So none of the--your testimony is that there have been--there has been no one that has been suggested to you by a--for a position in the Department from a political appointee? Ms. Becker. For a political position, Senator, or for a career position? Senator Kennedy. Recommended by a political appointee. Did anybody, a political appointee, make a recommendation to you for any--any--any employment? Ms. Becker. Senator, as I sit here I can't think of anyone, but, you know, I'd be happy to double check on that. But I can't think of anybody that--that may have-- Senator Kennedy. OK. I see Senator Cardin is here. Bradley Schlossman, who is a former high-ranking official in the Division, testified before this Committee that he bragged about hiring Republicans for civil service jobs in the Division. Did you ever hear anyone in the Division say anything suggesting that political affiliation should be a factor in personnel matters in the Division? Ms. Becker. Senator, I know that these matters currently are under investigation right now, and so I am obviously limited in what I can say in that regard, sir. I know that this is a topic that is of great interest to this Committee, and I have faith that the Office of Professional Responsibility or the Office of Inspector General will fully investigate the matter. Senator Kennedy. Well, I'm not asking so much about what they said to each other. I'm just asking whether you had heard that. Ms. Becker. As I said, this matter is under investigation, sir. I don't want to do anything that would jeopardize the integrity of that investigation. Senator Kennedy. I don't know whether there's a conflict with saying what you know. I know that's being investigated, but you're entitled to say what you know about this. I don't know why you're blocked. Ms. Becker. Senator, I'm not. I can tell you that I do not engage in political hiring. I've made that entirely clear to my staff, not just orally to the managers, but in writing as well. I have issued a--reissued the memorandum in December of 2007 that was issued by my predecessor, making clear to everyone in the Civil Rights Division that political affiliation would not be an appropriate consideration for career hires. Senator Kennedy. OK. There have been reports that Mr. Schlossman sought to hire attorneys who were members of the Republican National Lawyers Association, a group to which you once belonged. Do you ever have any reason to believe that any of the Division's political appointees were using the Republican National Lawyers Association as a source of hiring career attorneys? Ms. Becker. Senator, I know that some of these issues that you've talked about are under investigation. I can tell you personally that I have never gotten any referrals from the Republican National Lawyers Association while I've been at the Civil Rights Division. Senator Kennedy. OK. OK. I'll recognize Senator Cardin, then I'll come on back. Thank you. Senator Cardin. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Becker, it was a pleasure having an opportunity to meet with you. I thanked you then, and I thank you now publicly for your public service, and thank your family for their understanding and sharing you with the service that you are giving to your country. I want to just underscore a point about the importance of the position. The Civil Rights Division has been the premiere agency to enforce our civil rights laws. As is true with many of the fields within Department of Justice, I think it's uniquely important on civil rights laws for Federal enforcement. It's very difficult for the States to enforce the laws. They don't have the tools that you have at the national level, including the use of the FBI. You can--that Division historically has made such a difference in the lives and opportunities of all Americans. It's one of the great accomplishments, I think, in the recent history of America. I say that because I think Senator Kennedy's questions on the independence of judgment here are going to be very important in your role as the head of that Division, if confirmed by the Senate. Let me just mention, perhaps--and I would like to get your view as to the importance of this role and being able to stand up to the politics within the Department of Justice, standing up to partisan politics, standing up to whatever you have to to carry out the responsibilities that are entailed in heading that Division. So maybe I'll pause for a moment and give you a chance, and then I'm going to ask you specifically about one area. Ms. Becker. Thank you, Senator Cardin. I do very much appreciate the importance that the role of the Civil Rights Division has played. Just recently over the last couple of months, we have been celebrating the 50th anniversary of the Civil Rights Division, as Senator Kennedy mentioned in his opening statement. It was a wonderful opportunity to look back upon the formation of the Division and some of the history that underlays what we do here in the Civil Rights Division. It's a tremendous honor and a privilege to work day by day with the men and women who are dedicated to enforcing Federal civil rights laws in this area. Senator, I can assure you that, as someone who's been a former prosecutor, as someone who's been a career attorney for over a decade, as someone who's worked in all three branches of the Federal Government, I can appreciate the importance of enforcing the law. I know I have a very healthy appreciation for the three branches of government and the three roles that they play, three very distinct roles that they play. I believe that the role of the executive branch, the Justice Department, and the Civil Rights Division is to engage in law enforcement and to vigorously enforce all of the Federal civil rights laws. Senator Cardin. I want to talk about one area specifically, which is going to be voting rights, but it could be housing, it could be hate crimes, it could be other areas where, quite frankly, the impression in the community is that there has been political interference with the traditional role of the Department of Justice Civil Rights Division. I share that. I'll tell you up front that I am concerned that we have not had the objective enforcement of these laws as we have in previous administrations. But elections are pretty fundamental and we're going to have a major national election coming in November. I think it's critically important that the Department of Justice Civil Rights Division be actively involved to hopefully prevent fraudulent activities, to ensure that, to the maximum extent possible, those who wish to participate in the elections are able to participate in the elections and that votes are properly counted. So let me tell you the dilemma that I face as a United States Senator. I am concerned that there will be political pressure placed on the Department of Justice, the Civil Rights Division, to use your resources as aggressively as possible to make sure that no one who is not eligible to vote and registered is found and make sure that person doesn't vote, even though there is little evidence of any significant problem of people voting who are not eligible and registered to vote. I'm afraid that that's going to be the directive, exclusive of activities that have taken place in the last several elections that have clearly been aimed at minority communities to prevent minority communities from participating in the numbers that they otherwise would: literature that's distributed giving the wrong election day in minority communities; literature that's distributed, threatening people with being arrested and put in jail if they have unpaid parking tickets and attempt to vote; literature aimed at minority communities, clearly part of election strategies to try to diminish the importance of minority voting. I would think that the Department of Justice, the Civil Rights Division, could play a really important role to make it clear that those types of election tactics will have no place in America. I suspect that you will probably agree with me, but I am concerned that there may well be political influence that's attempted to be exercised to prevent you, as the Division chief, from making an independent judgment that the resources should be placed to make sure that vulnerable people are not intimidated from voting. I would just give you a chance as to whether you would stand up to that pressure and whether you're prepared to make an independent judgment on the set of facts which I believe the communities have pretty well already come in with their concerns. But I want to have assurances that, if you are confirmed, that you would make this independent judgment and stand up for the enforcement by the Civil Rights Division that can have the most impact on enfranchising people to vote, particularly minorities. Ms. Becker. Senator, thank you for that question. I think we agree that voting is a fundamental right. As the Supreme Court has stated, it's so significant because it's preservative of all the other rights that we have. I've only been overseeing the Voting Section for three months, but in that very short time period I have made clear to everyone in the Voting Section that I want to vigorously enforce all the provisions, all the statutes, all the voting statutes that are entrusted to the Civil Rights Division to enforce, because that's what I believe our job is to do, to open up the vote to as many people as we can. You talked about some instances that may adversely affect minorities. That is something that we, of course, are very concerned about in the Civil Rights Division, and if any of those activities implicate one of the statutes that we enforce, I can assure you that we will take appropriate action in that regard. You also talked about voter fraud. There has been a traditional division of labor within the Department of Justice, and that's reflected in Regulation 28 CFR 0.50, which sets forth the responsibilities of the Assistant Attorney General for the Civil Rights Division, and 0.55, which delineates the responsibilities of the Assistant Attorney General for the Criminal Division. The vast majority of election crimes are entrusted to the Criminal Division to enforce. There is a small subset that could potentially come to the Civil Rights Division, usually when it involves some allegation of discrimination, which are the types of allegations that we see throughout the Division. So I can assure you that from the Civil Rights Division perspective, that we will vigorously enforce all the laws that we are entrusted to in full. Senator Cardin. I would also hope you would be more aggressive than that, in that if you don't have enough laws, let us know about it. We asked the Department of Justice to investigate the conduct of the 2006 election. They declined to do it. They indicated they didn't believe they had adequate laws to handle those circumstances. There has been legislation pending in this Congress on which we've gotten zero help from the administration in getting passed where we give additional tools to go after targeting of minority communities to prevent them from voting, which I would think is fundamental to the mission of the Civil Rights Division. I understand these are criminal offenses and you have a Criminal Division, but to me these are fundamental civil rights that should be of interest to the Civil Rights Division. Senator Mathias came down to testify in favor of that, the distinguished former Senator from Maryland, a Republican. I think there is strong bipartisan support to make sure that everyone can participate in this election. I hoped this wouldn't be a partisan issue. I think, without the leadership of the Department of Justice making it clear to candidates that this is off the table, that you can't try to disenfranchise people in order to win an election--that requires leadership. I think the Division of Civil Rights is the appropriate agency within the Department of Justice to exercise that leadership to make sure we have adequate tools in order to enforce the law. If you don't, ask for more tools and make this a top priority, knowing full well what has happened in so many States, including my own, in recent elections. Ms. Becker. Senator, I appreciate that offer. If there are additional tools that we would need, I welcome the opportunity to approach you for any additional tools. I will tell you, I do know we have discussed your voting bill. I know that this is something you feel very strongly about, and there are certainly provisions in that bill, as the Department has indicated in its newsletter, that it does support--the criminal provisions, I know, are helpful, some of the--provisions that are in there if people are saying that you should vote on Tuesday instead of Wednesday, things of that-- false information. But there--as you know, as I delineated in the letter, some concerns with regard to campaign rhetoric and whether or not the Justice Department should publicly issue corrective action to correct the campaign rhetoric of candidates, and that's an issue that I'd like the opportunity to continue to work with Congress on, if I have the opportunity to do so, and to be as cooperative as I can with respect to various provisions of that legislation. Senator Cardin. Well, I welcome those discussions. Quite frankly, I welcome leadership in the Civil Rights Division that will stand up for the traditional role of that agency. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Senator Kennedy. Thank you, Senator. You know, Ms. Becker, one of the first actions you took as the Acting head of the Division was to file a brief urging the Supreme Court to uphold a strict Indiana photo ID requirement for voting, which had the potential to disenfranchise large numbers of minority voters. A broad coalition of civil rights advocates expressed deep concern about the Indiana law undermining voting rights. The law is also widely viewed as benefiting Republicans, raising the appearance that the Division's support of the law is politically motivated. Given the potential harm to minority voters, the fact that Indiana was well represented by competent counsel and the appearance that the Division was acting for political reasons, why did you think it necessary to file a brief supporting the Indiana photo ID law? Ms. Becker. Senator, thank you for that question. As you know, this is a case that's currently pending before the Supreme Court. The Solicitor General filed a brief on behalf of the United States of America, and I joined that brief on behalf of the Civil Rights Division. I can share with you the Civil Rights Division perspective, but with the caveat that there are other government interests as well. We enforce the Help America Vote Act in the Civil Rights Division. In that statute it requires that individuals who register by mail, who go to vote in person for the first time, have to show some form of identification. Not necessarily photo identification, but some form of identification. There's a concern that the Supreme Court's ruling here may undermine our ability to vigorously enforce the Help America Vote Act. There are also seven Members of Congress who filed amici briefs on that very issue, sir. But if I may just add that I think that voter ID laws generally-- Senator Kennedy. Were they all Republicans-- Ms. Becker. No, sir. Senator Kennedy.--the members that signed? Ms. Becker. No, sir. I do--if I may, sir, I do think it's important for us in the Civil Rights Division to look at voter ID laws, and in fact any law that has the potential of being used as a pretext to suppress minority votes very carefully. Senator, I believe that we need to take these instances on a case-by-case basis. Whether it is this law or any other law, if it has a retrogressive effect or a discriminatory purpose, that is something that we will take appropriate action on in the Civil Rights Division, as we have in other voting cases in the Supreme Court. For example, in Riley v. Kennedy, we filed an amicus brief on behalf of African-American voters, defending the Section 5 objection that we had interposed. Again, that was a brief filed by the Solicitor General's Office, but one that my name appears on as well. My name also appears on another Supreme Court amicus brief that the Solicitor General filed involving Cracker Barrel, where we argued on the side of the employee, that a Section 1981 claim, which is a private civil rights claim involving contracts, includes retaliation. So if you look at the broad swath of cases that we've brought in the Civil Rights Division, I think that you will see that we try to take these cases on a case-by-case basis and vigorously enforce the laws in the Civil Rights Division. Senator Kennedy. Well, what was it about the Indiana photo ID case that was the most troublesome to you? This isn't an old issue. We have the Georgia ID case. The court decision that found that, in effect, it overrode--political personnel overrode the career individuals in the Justice Department, felt that it was more of a poll tax. What was it about the Indiana photo ID that so distressed you? Ms. Becker. Senator, if I may, just--I've only been overseeing the Voting Section for 3 months. I was not there at the time when some of the Georgia ID decisions that you are concerned about were made. I--I can tell you that--I can talk about the process part of it, what my philosophy is in management in terms of including career-- Senator Kennedy. It's a pretty major--pretty major civil rights case-- Ms. Becker. Yes, sir. And I'm-- Senator Kennedy.--the Georgia ID case. Add in the Texas case, the two most notorious cases certainly in the civil rights area in the recent times. Ms. Becker. Senator, those are both cases that I was not supervising the Voting Section at the time. I am generally familiar with those cases. I can tell you-- Senator Kennedy. Well, I'm just trying to figure out what it was about the Indiana photo ID case that you felt so strongly about in terms of, you thought it was necessary to file the brief in the Indiana photo after the history of the Georgia case, which was political interference with government officials overriding government judgments, and then eventually being struck down. What--so that's a pretty red flag. And then you felt, evidently, that the Indiana brief, that you ought to be signing onto that. I'm just wondering what it was in this Indiana photo ID case that--that troubled you so much in terms of--of its--it's--that you thought that you ought to get involved in it. Ms. Becker. Senator, as you know, this is pending before the Supreme Court right now and, pursuant to Departmental policy, I can't get into the substance of pending litigation. But what I can-- Senator Kennedy. You can talk about the case. You can talk about the case. I mean, there's no reason--you filed a brief on the case. There's no reason you can't talk about the case. Ms. Becker. Exactly, Senator. And I think the brief speaks for itself and the-- Senator Kennedy. Well, I'm not asking the brief, I'm asking you. You're the one. I'm not proving the brief. I'm asking you. You're the one that filed it. Ms. Becker. Senator, it's--it's pending litigation. I'm not at liberty to discuss the substance of that. Senator Kennedy. I'm not asking the substance. Ms. Becker. But I'd be happy-- Senator Kennedy. Just describe what you talked about in the brief, why you filed--what you felt was so necessary in terms of filing the brief on the photo ID law. That's a big deal. In terms of voting rights, it's a big deal. Ms. Becker. Senator, I can appreciate that you're interested in this case, as am I. I am very interested in-- Senator Kennedy. Well, I authored the poll tax back in 1965. I care very deeply about the poll tax. I offered it. And I also was the principal sponsor to make it a constitutional prohibition on it. So I followed these things for some period of time, and this is the--the action of the Justice Department in the Georgia case is one of the most egregious actions that have been taken in recent times. We have a similar case that you felt it was necessary in Indiana, a photo ID case. And I'm just asking you, why--why you felt it was necessary. And you said you can't comment on it, although you filed a brief on it. Ms. Becker. Senator, if I have the opportunity to, I'd be happy to discuss this case after the Supreme Court renders its decision. But at this point, Senator, the Solicitor General is representing the United States in the-- Senator Kennedy. I asked you if you could talk about your brief, Counselor. You could talk about your brief. That's not-- that's not--you can talk about your brief. You filed a brief. You can talk about that. Ms. Becker. Senator, my understanding is that Departmental policy does not permit me to get into the substance, sir. Senator Kennedy. Well, let me--let me move on. Let me move on. One of the--this is a general concern that--that I have. You've been a political appointee in the Division for the past 2 years, and during that period many of the events under investigation by the IG or OPR played out and the investigation has been ongoing. For this entire time you've had the power to correct the kinds of personnel abuses that are being investigated. You and the Department have been reluctant to share information during this period. So before you're confirmed as head of the Division, we have to be certain that you haven't been involved in any of the practices under investigation and that you have, in fact, taken steps to correct them. Why shouldn't we have that as a--as a rule? Ms. Becker. Senator, with respect, sir, this is a matter that is currently an investigation. As I submitted to you in writing prior to the hearing, sir, I've been cooperating fully with the investigation. I provided documents pursuant to a document request. They have not contacted me. They have not requested to interview me. I have not had substantial overlap with Mr. Schlossman and I'm not a percipient witness to events that occurred prior to my joining the Civil Rights Division. Senator Kennedy. Do you think it would be worthwhile for us to talk to them and find that out for ourselves? Ms. Becker. Senator, I believe the timing of my employment in the Civil Rights Division speaks for itself, as does my commitment, and service, and experience that I bring to the table here today. Senator Kennedy. OK. Senator Cardin? Senator Cardin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just have a couple brief points, and then I know Senator Whitehouse is here and I won't take too much time. Let me talk a little bit about the housing problem, which is something we have not really focused much on from the point of view of the Department of Justice and the Civil Rights Division. We are concerned that part of the housing problem is predatory lending, where those who were qualified to be in regular mortgages and non-adjustable mortgages were steered into subprime mortgages and adjustable rate mortgages, and that those communities that were primarily steered into this type of practice were minority communities. There is concern in Baltimore City. They've actually filed a lawsuit in this regard. I would like to know your view as to the level of interest that you would have as the Division chief of the Civil Rights Division on predatory lending practices that were involved in the current housing crisis. Ms. Becker. Senator, thank you for that question. I think owning your own home epitomizes the American dream for so many individuals here in this country, and if there's something that we could do in the Civil Rights Division to ensure that people have an equal opportunity to achieve that dream without encountering illegal housing discrimination, Senator, I support the vigorous enforcement of those laws. I've had the honor and privilege of supervising the Housing and Civil Enforcement Section for the last two years, and I am familiar with the work that we've--we've done there. We have been very concerned about the subprime mortgage issue that has been of great concern to everyone in this country, I know, and to the Congress. We have an inter-agency working group that includes the bank regulatory agencies, the Federal Trade Commission, Housing and Urban Development, and the Department of Justice. We enforce two statutes in the Housing and Civil Enforcement Section, the Equal Credit Opportunity Act and the mortgage provisions of the Fair Housing Act, which enables us to bring some fair lending cases and we've been able to obtain over $25 million of monetary relief on behalf of African- American and Hispanic victims in this area. The--the deceptive terms, deceptive ads, the predatory practices that you were talking about fall primarily within the jurisdiction, I think, of the FTC and some of the other-- perhaps, and the State AGs, I think, have brought some cases under State law in this regard. A lot of the work that we do in the fair housing--fair lending area, I should say, is complementary to that. We bring--in two areas. One, is pricing discrimination, where individuals of minorities may be treated to one interest rate, a higher interest rate than whites, and the other is in red-lining, where we--where prime lenders refuse to do business in minority neighborhoods, making those minority neighborhoods more susceptible to the subprime market. Senator Cardin. And here's where you're going to have a problem in dealing with this issue, because the lending institutions will tell you that one of the reasons they went into the minority community is to show that they were interested in making credit available within the minority community, sort of the reverse of red-lining. But on the other hand, if the evidence shows that in minority communities they were steered into subprime loans where they should have been in traditional mortgages, that's a form of discrimination against minority communities that needs to be attended to. Once again, I think there are agencies that can handle some of this. The Civil Rights Division is in a unique position. I would hope this would be something that you would try to help assist them so that we get it right. We don't want the results of what we do to try to fix the housing crisis causing minority communities to be red-lined from mortgage opportunities. But on the other hand, if there were injustices done, the community is entitled to relief. Ms. Becker. Senator, I agree. We have this inter-agency approach. We're working proactively with the other agencies in coordination with them in order to help all the victims that have been suffering under the subprime mortgage crisis. Senator Cardin. Let me just ask one more question. That is, if you are confirmed, whether you will look to bring more pattern or practice cases in regards to employment discrimination. It's my understanding there's been a 30 percent decline in these types of cases in this administration compared to prior administrations. The pattern or practice cases have been major--areas to make major advancements that affect a significant number of individuals. Would you commit to reviewing this situation and determining why there's been a decline and look for opportunities in which civil rights can be advanced through the pattern or practice cases? Ms. Becker. Senator, I share with you the significance and the importance of pattern and practice cases based upon my supervision of other civil sections in the Civil Rights Division over the last 2 years. I've only been overseeing the Employment Section for about 3 months now, but I can tell you that I've looked at this issue. My understanding is that, on average, the section over a decade, I guess, across both administrations, has been about two pattern and practice cases a year. I do know that they opened 14 pattern and practice investigations last year and that the section is now trying to prioritize those pattern and practice cases. So I share--I appreciate your concern that pattern and practice cases are important and that you want us to bring more. I want us to vigorously enforce all of the laws that we have, including the pattern and practice laws. Senator Cardin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Senator Kennedy. Just to pick up on this point, you've only been in 3 months. But as the Senator pointed out, we have seen the increase--the numbers have decreased 50 percent--has declined 50 percent under the Bush administration compared to the Clinton administration on Title 7. EEOC says the total number of discrimination has increased by 10 percent in 2007. So that's a significant increase. Your response to Senator Cardin, you've only been in 3 months. The question is, are you going to do something about it? Ms. Becker. Senator, it-- Senator Kennedy. And what--what--what are you going to do about it, and how worried are you, if the Senator would just let me--please. Ms. Becker. Senator, thank you. My understanding is that EEO referrals in recent years have gone down. I can--but I--as I understand it. But I can tell you what I told Senator Cardin, which is that we have 14 investigations that were opened in 2007, that the section currently is prioritizing those investigations of pattern and practice cases. So, Senator, even in the short time that I've been in the Employment Section, I believe that I have taken action. I hope I have the opportunity to continue to do so. Senator Kennedy. Well, just if I can have the attention of the Senator from Maryland, as well, the Division has filed as many cases alleging discrimination against whites as against African-Americans and Latinos combined. It's brought only six cases alleging discrimination against African or Latinos, yet it's filed five cases of discrimination on the basis of whites. Clearly, where there's problems we want prosecution, but we also want the Department to reflect where the problems are the greatest. Ms. Becker. Senator, thank you for that question. As I said, I am committed to enforcing all the laws in the Civil Rights Division. I know that the Employment Section recently brought a pattern and practice lawsuit against the largest fire department in--fire department in the entire country, in the fire department of New York. This is a case that was brought on behalf of African-Americans, Senator, and it's a relatively recent case and I hope to have the opportunity to bring more employment cases, if I'm confirmed by the Senate. Senator Kennedy. Senator Whitehouse? Senator Whitehouse. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Becker, welcome to the hearing. I'm delighted to see you here with your family. I applaud particularly how well your son and daughter are being patient through all of this. I particularly applaud your son's choice of reading material. I'm a big fan of Calvin and Hobbs. Mine is 14 and we still read it together, reading ``Spaceman Spiff''. That's pretty good. Ms. Becker. Thank you. Senator Whitehouse. I hope you understand why we're asking these questions. We don't start here with a clean slate, nor do you. We start looking at a Department of Justice that is a place that many of us feel is very special. I was a United States Attorney. It's not the biggest deal in the world, but it was very important to me, and it meant the world to me to go into that Department of Justice and feel the traditional, the integrity, the independence, the feel that this was an institution that stood for something in American life, and the idea that that Department, instead of standing tall, should be put into the political traces, put in political harness by a political party to do its political legwork, is disgraceful, irrespective of what political party is trying to do that. So we come at this with a lot of feeling when we see what happened to the U.S. Attorneys, when we see what happened at OLC, when we see what happened at the Civil Rights Division, when we see what happened to the honors program, when we see what happened to non-partisan hiring. This is a very, very serious matter, and so, you know, I hope you'll forgive the intensity that we're pursuing this with. But I hope you also understand that we're doing this because many of us fear for this Department. We want to see it put right again. We care very, very deeply about that. We see some of the Civil Rights Division issues in that context. I look--for instance, I've sponsored a bill that would make it illegal to engage in vote caging. Do you know what vote caging is? Ms. Becker. Yes, sir. Senator Whitehouse. OK. So I don't need to go into the details of that. Clearly, you will concede that if there is a significant campaign to target--for instance, minority votes in a vote caging operation--it creates, at a minimum, the risk that more than a handful of voters might be discouraged. Correct? Ms. Becker. Senator, I believe that whether it's vote caging or any other conduct that has the potential of suppressing minority voters, it's something that the Civil Rights Division is very concerned about, particularly if it can implicate one of the Federal laws that we enforce. Senator Whitehouse. Would you be concerned enough for the Department to support the vote caging legislation? Ms. Becker. Senator, I have not had an opportunity to look at the details of that legislation and I don't believe the Department has spoken on that. I do believe, Senator, that there are some criminal provisions in there and, as I mentioned earlier, I want to--I want to tread carefully here because we do have a division of labor in the Department of Justice where the vast majority of election crimes are prosecuted by the Criminal Division. So there may be other equities at stake here by other components of the Department of Justice. But-- Senator Whitehouse. Understood. But could you get me an answer on that? The bill is pending now. I've put it in, and I'd love to know where you stand. Ms. Becker. Well, Senator, if I'm confirmed, I would welcome the opportunity to work with you on this bill, or any other bill, sir. Senator Whitehouse. And I--just to followup on what Senator Kennedy was saying, it really does seem that where the underlying strategy will discourage voting in minority communities--for instance, with voter ID programs which have that effect--the Department steps right up, steps right up and does its best, even when there are really no significant cases of any voter fraud, and the idea that half a dozen or handful of votes is going to swing the election one way or the other is a theoretical possibility. But, my gosh, that happens rarely in America, and yet, there seems to be a very considerable focus on that. And when the drift is the other direction, when, for instance, there is, you know, e-mails from a prospective U.S. Attorney about a vote caging scheme, silence. There doesn't seem to be the same interest. So what I need to hear from you is some assurance that this is not going to be the closing days, you know, the last political stand of the political occupancy of the Department of Justice, but that you'll help us to put this right and that you will enforce the laws, irrespective of whether they help Republicans or Democrats. Ms. Becker. Senator, having been a career attorney, starting my career at the Criminal Division of the Department of Justice, I share with you the concern that you have and the pride that you had in representing the Department of Justice. And Senator, I hope that even in the short time that I've been able to be in the managerial ranks of the Civil Rights Division, that I've been able to convey that same pride and leadership and camaraderie that has always been such an instrumental part of the Department of Justice. And I believe that what makes the Department of Justice so special, what makes people have confidence in the Justice Department, which makes judges expect more from DOJ attorneys, is the fact that we need to fairly and even-handedly and vigorously enforce all of the laws in the Voting Section, in all the sections of the Civil Rights Division, so that everyone has full faith and belief that we're doing everything we can from every possible front. We take each--each case, each matter on a case-by-case basis, but we will vigorously and carefully investigate the facts and law in each case and take appropriate action wherever necessary. Senator Whitehouse. And, of course, you understand that it's not enough just to say that, it's important to lead the Department in such a way that the results and the statistics actually bear that out? Ms. Becker. Absolutely, Senator. I--I--I believe that in-- in the 2-years that I've been there overseeing the sections that I've overseen, and Voting has not been one of those sections, that I have tried to encourage the managers within those sections to do exactly that, and that I will continue to do so if have--I have the opportunity to lead the Division. Senator Whitehouse. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My time has expired. Senator Kennedy. OK. Senator Schumer? Senator Schumer. Thank you. First, Mr. Chairman, let me thank you for holding this hearing. I think it's really important. This is an area I know you've been concerned about for close to--well, certainly more than 40 years, and I care a lot about it, too. I first, as a New Yorker, want to welcome you here, Ms. Becker. I'm always pleased to see a graduate of Stuyvesant High School in public service. My daughter went to Stuyvesant. My parents wanted me to go, but I wanted to play basketball at Madison so I told them the only answers-- Senator Kennedy. You wanted to do what? Senator Schumer. Play basketball. Mr. Chairman, our team's motto was, ``We may be small, but we're slow.'' [Laughter.] Ms. Becker. I'll tell you, do you know what our school motto was? Senator Schumer. And we were better than Stuyvesant. Ms. Becker. What we used to say at Stuyvesant is, ``Kick 'em in the guts, kick 'em in the knees, we get higher SATs,'' was what our athletic motto was after we lost. Senator Schumer. Well, I told my parents the only questions on the test I'd get right were the ones I didn't know the answer to, because anyone I knew the answer, I'd mark the wrong answer. I'd flunk and stay at Madison, which is what happened. Anyway, I'm sure your family's proud here. I know the whole Korean community in New York, or many of them, are very proud of your accomplishments and it's a great community in New York. Of course, we believe in immigration and we believe in ladders up for people who come from all over the world, and so I'm proud that you're here. But that doesn't sort of dampen my worry about this Department, my worry about what's happened in this Department. I think it's been plagued by not only mismanagement, but improper politization. I think it's improving, but the Committee needs to examine your qualifications closely because this administration has not been a friend, in my judgment, of civil rights. For instance, what happened with the Georgia case. All the things we heard about, it just makes you really worry about the Department. So I'm going to ask you some tough questions, and I hope you don't mind that. It has nothing to do with you or the accomplishments that you've had. So I want to go back to the Crawford case, which Senator Kennedy, I know, asked some questions about. But I want to take it in a slightly--I want to pursue it further. You know what the law is, the new photo ID. In the amicus brief you submitted with the Solicitor General, Paul Clement, you urged the Supreme Court to uphold Indiana's restrictive law, in part because it's justified by the need to prevent in- person voter fraud. And let's be clear here: this will not deal with all voter fraud and ID, but just in-person voter fraud, where someone shows up and says they're not who they are. What I'd like to do is try to get, as much as I can, yes or no answers here. First, did anyone at the White House or outside the Justice Department ask you or urge you to take the position you did in the Indiana voter ID case? Ms. Becker. No. Senator Schumer. OK. Did anyone inside the Justice Department put any pressure on you to take a certain position in that case? Ms. Becker. No. Senator Schumer. Did you consult any career staff members in the Civil Rights Division before you took the position? Ms. Becker. Of course. We do in every case, sir. Senator Schumer. And did they recommend that you take that position unanimously, or-- Ms. Becker. I can't talk about predeliberative recommendations, Senator. But I can tell you that, as someone who's been a former career attorney, I believe that career attorneys have very important perspectives to add to the process and I certainly have encouraged and welcomed a predeliberative process in all of the cases. Senator Schumer. Let me ask you this. Since most election crimes are handled by the Criminal Division--you noted that earlier--is there any reason why Alice Fisher didn't sign onto this brief with you or instead of you? Ms. Becker. I don't know her. Senator Schumer. Well, you must have--wait, that's not good enough. It's usually handled by the Criminal Division. Alice Fisher didn't sign. Did you ever talk to Alice Fisher even once about this case? Ms. Becker. Senator, I can't get into predeliberative discussions. I can only tell you that the brief speaks for itself, sir. Senator Schumer. Wait. Can you explain to me why you can't get into predeliberative discussions? This is an important question. The head of the Criminal Division, which usually has jurisdiction, doesn't sign on. You do instead. Now, what is the reason that you can't answer a simple yes or no question about, did you discuss this with Alice Fisher? That doesn't reveal any confidences or whatever. Ms. Becker. Senator, I can tell you that the names that are reflected on the cover of the brief submitted by the United States are--are--speak for themselves, sir. Senator Schumer. Did you ever talk to Alice Fisher about this, yes or no? Ms. Becker. Senator, my understanding is it's part of the predeliberative process and I'm not at liberty to discuss that. But I can tell you-- Senator Schumer. And why? What is the reason you're not at liberty to discuss it? Ms. Becker. Well, Senator, in order to encourage robust predeliberative discussions, it's important--it's a longstanding departmental policy, Senator, to protect those discussions, and that's part of the discussion. Senator Schumer. But that's about the substance of what was discussed. I'm just asking you, yes or no, did you discuss it with Ms. Fisher? Ms. Becker. Senator, my understanding is--is that--it's covering generally those discussions. All the interested parties were--were--were included in the discussion. Senator Schumer. Let me ask you--let me pursue another line here. In the brief, you state that Indiana determined that it faced ``a serious problem of actual and potential election fraud'', right? Are you aware of any election in the past 7 years where the outcome was affected by in-person voter fraud, the kind you're trying to eliminate, supposedly, with these voter IDs? Any case? Any election? Ms. Becker. Senator, this--I'm not--this is a case that is, as I indicated to Senator Kennedy, is one that's pending before the Supreme Court. This is a--that's some of the issues that are pending, that were discussed as part of the case. Senator, once the Supreme Court renders its decision, I'm happy to engage in substantive discussion. Senator Schumer. Ms. Becker, I didn't ask you a question about the case. I asked you a question about your jurisdiction. If you can't answer this question, I'm going to have serious doubts whether you can move forward. I asked you--you can't just duck everything here and expect to get this nomination. Are you aware of any election in the past 7 years where the outcome was affected by in-person voter fraud? I haven't mentioned any case. Ms. Becker. Senator, as I understand it, criminal voter fraud issues are primarily handled by the Criminal Division. I can tell you with--generally--as I understand it, this is a general question. My jurisdiction in the Civil Rights Division is to enforce the voting rights laws that are entrusted to the Voting Section to enforce. Most of the criminal voting fraud issues that you're talking about would be a matter for a different component of the Justice Department. Senator Schumer. So you can't cite to me. You signed this brief. Ms. Fisher didn't. And you can't cite to me a single election where the outcome was affected by in-person voter fraud, when that's the only kind of voter fraud that a voter ID at the polling place would deal with, correct? Ms. Becker. Well, Senator, I was talking about the general division of labor with respect to that. I was not talking specifically about the Crawford case. As I understood your question, sir, it was a general question and I was giving you a general response. Senator Schumer. Can I ask you this: isn't it true that a voter ID law won't stop absentee ballot fraud? Ms. Becker. Senator, there--Senator, generally speaking, you know, whether these are voter fraud laws that are handled at the State level, there are States-- Senator Schumer. No, no. Ms. Becker.--look at them. We would look at them, from the Civil Rights Division perspective, as to whether or not they have a retrogressive effect or discriminatory purpose. Senator Schumer. I am asking you a simple question. Mr. Chairman, can I have a couple more minutes to pursue this? Senator Kennedy. Yes. Sure. Senator Schumer. Thank you. I appreciate it. I'm just asking you a simple question. We have a law that you're defending. It says you have to show a voter ID. The reason for that is to prevent voter fraud. You haven't been able to cite to me a single case--in-person voter fraud--where in-person voter fraud affected the election. Now I'm asking you again, this is a question based on your practical experience, two years as Deputy Director. Isn't it true that a voter ID law won't stop any absentee ballot fraud for the very reason that the person isn't showing up? Isn't that--that's just an easy yes-or-no question. Ms. Becker. Senator, voter--voter--photo ID laws address in-person issues. I think that's what you're getting at, generally. I will tell you, voter fraud--the reason why I'm giving you an answer is because it's a different component of the Justice Department that handles those types of cases. I'm not trying to evade your question, sir. This--there's a division of responsibility within the Justice Department--- Senator Schumer. But you-- Ms. Becker.--and the voter fraud cases, or election crime cases generally, are handled at the--at the Criminal Division. Senator Schumer. You signed the brief. Alice Fisher didn't. Ms. Becker. Yes. And I can tell you what the Civil Rights' interest was. Senator Schumer. Let me just finish. Let me just finish. In the brief, the only cases that were cited, as I understand it, were absentee voter fraud. Yet, the brief goes to voter ID at the polling place, which can only deal with in-person voter fraud. And so I'm asking you a simple question, and that is--I can't--I know you won't answer about the case, although I don't think that's fair. Isn't it true that a voter ID law will not stop absentee ballot fraud? You--you give me one single instance where voter ID stops absentee ballot fraud. Give me an example. Ms. Becker. Senator, voter IDs--ID laws are targeted toward--I think I said, generally speaking, as I understand them, targeted toward in-person issues. Senator Schumer. Right. Ms. Becker. And--but-- Senator Schumer. Wait. So let me stop you there. Ms. Becker. But I cannot discuss the substance of this case, Senator. Senator Schumer. Yes. Ms. Becker. And I'm very--I'm very cautious here because I don't want to do anything that would adversely affect pending litigation in the Supreme Court. Senator Schumer. OK. I would just like the record to show that the only cases cited in this--in the--in the brief of the Justice Department were not voter ID, they were absentee ballot fraud. I'd just like the record to show that. And yet, we're doing something here about this. Now, just two more questions on this. Isn't it true that voter ID won't stop unscrupulous officials from tampering with election results? Voter ID has nothing to do with that, right? Ms. Becker. I'm sorry. Can you repeat the question? Senator Schumer. Yes. Voter ID law won't--isn't it true that a voter ID law won't stop unscrupulous officials from tampering with election results? One has nothing to do with the other. Ms. Becker. Generally--Senator, again, what we're looking for in the Civil Rights Division are not the voter fraud issues. You're asking a lot of substantive questions on a voter fraud issue. What we're looking for in the Civil Rights Division is whether or not a particular law will have a retrogressive effect or discriminatory purpose. Those are the statutes that we enforce. Senator Schumer. Let me--let me change. You're not-- Ms. Becker. You're asking me policy questions about this. Senator Schumer. I'm asking you-- Ms. Becker. I'm not going-- Senator Schumer. These are not policy questions. These are factual questions that someone who's in the Department should know. There are certain laws aimed at certain types of fraud and other types of laws aimed at other type of fraud, and your--your brief cites one type of fraud to justify another type of law. But let me ask you this. I'm going to move to something else here. In 2002, the Justice Department launched a new ballot access and voting integrity initiative, correct? Ms. Becker. Yes. Senator Schumer. Since that initiative started, how many in-person voter fraud cases has DOJ investigated and prosecuted? Ms. Becker. Again, Senator, it's another component of the Justice Department that handles those cases. Senator Schumer. You know, wait a second. You signed this brief and you don't know? You're head of Civil Rights Division and you don't know the answer to that? Ms. Becker. I can certainly get those statistics for you, Senator. Senator Schumer. You can get me those in writing. In fact, I'm not going to--I'm going to ask the nomination not move forward until I get those answers in writing. And I'd also like to know how many in Indiana. How many nationally and how many in Indiana, because your brief, of course, applies to Indiana. And I just want to ask you this: did you consult any experts at the Justice Department or elsewhere about the prevalence of fraud in Indiana before deciding to file the brief? Ms. Becker. Senator, again, I cannot get into the deliberative process that we have. Senator Schumer. All right. I just want to say this. The nonpartisan Brennan Center did an analysis of 95 voter fraud cases brought by the Justice Department between 2002 and 2005 and concluded that not one of them was a case of in-person fraud that could have been stopped by a photo ID. I'd like you to just take a look--I'm not asking you now. That wouldn't be right--at this Brennan Center report and get me--see if you disagree with that or if they're--it's fallacious in any way. And I would just say--and I'm going to just ask these rhetorical questions and conclude, and I really thank you, Mr. Chairman, for your indulgence of me here. I care about this a lot. It doesn't seem logical that you should know the magnitude of this supposed problem before signing your name to--name to a brief endorsing a flawed solution--at least in my judgment, a flawed solution. If you can't cite how many cases, you have no idea, and yet you signed a brief that says we have to have a major law change, that says something to me. Wouldn't it--and just, you can answer both of these. Wouldn't it call into question whether you should be leader of this Department if--a Department tasked with ensuring voter access, when you publicly support an Indiana law which seems to attack a phantom problem on the one hand, because we don't have many cases--I don't think any in Indiana--of in-person voter fraud, and at the same time would disenfranchise voters? How do you answer that? Ms. Becker. Senator, with respect, sir, we were not--what we try to do in every brief that we file in the court is to interpret the law. We--we do not try to change the law, we try and interpret the law. It's up to Congress, certainly, in its role to make the laws or to change the laws as they see fit. So what the Justice Department tried to do in this case, was just to interpret the law. And Senator, if you look at--we take each instance on a case-by-case basis and if you look at the cross-section of cases that we have filed, you will see that in the Supreme Court we've also filed an amicus brief in Riley v. Kennedy, where the Solicitor General, on behalf of the Civil Rights Division, defends a Section 5 objection that we made on behalf of African-American voters. We filed other amicus briefs on other non-voting issues in the civil rights context. For example, in Cracker Barrel, the CBOCs case where we filed an amicus brief in support of individuals who were bringing private civil rights lawsuits. So we take each case on a case-by-case basis, Senator, and if I am confirmed, I can assure you that we will continue to do so. I can appreciate that we disagree on this one particular case, but Senator, I would like the opportunity to be able to take this on a case-by-case basis. I share your concern with respect to voter ID laws, because I think we do need to look at them very carefully. I can tell you that what the Solicitor General, the Civil Rights Division, and the United States is trying to do in this case, was try to interpret the law. Senator, after the Supreme Court has rendered its decision, I hope to have the opportunity to--to discuss the substance of that in more detail. Senator Schumer. I respect what you have to say. I have a different view. I have a view that this administration--and we saw this under Alberto Gonzales's stewardship--uses the pretext of voter fraud, even though they can't prove it, to make it harder for poorer people to vote. You all know the quote. I don't know if it was mentioned earlier here before. One Republican official in Texas said, ``If we had a voter ID law it would reduce Democratic turnout by 3 percent.'' And who would that affect? Poor people, minorities, immigrants. Voting is a sacred right. It's equal. The poorest person with the least power has the same vote as the richest person with the most power. When you tamper with it for political purposes, I think it's nothing short of despicable. And I believe that the Civil Rights Division--not the rank and file, but the political appointees--has done that in the past and I think we have to make very sure that you won't do it. That's why I think we need more complete answers than just saying ``I can't answer this, I can't answer that''. But again, I greatly respect you and where you come from and what you've achieved. This is not a substantive or personal disagreement, but it's one that some of us feel very, very deeply here. Ms. Becker. Senator, thank-- Senator Schumer. The last word. Ms. Becker. Senator, thank you. You know, as--coming from a family of immigrants and naturalized American citizens, I certainly have emphasized to my family members and to other naturalized citizens that I've spoken to down the street at the Federal courthouse the importance of the right to vote, because I think all of us really believe that voting is--is--is so important because it protects all the other rights that we have. And so, Senator, I do share your concern on that issue. You know, I am at a disadvantage because that is pending litigation, so I'm not able to talk about it. I wish I could be more responsive to your questions, but I do hope that I would have the opportunity to at a later date. Senator Schumer. Thank you. Senator Kennedy. Thank you very much. Senator Feingold? Senator Feingold. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Welcome, Ms. Becker. I want to followup on Senator Kennedy's questions about hiring practices. As I understand it, and as the Boston Globe reported, there was a major change in the Division's hiring practices in 2002, giving political appointees a greater role in hiring decisions with little input from career staff. You've described a collaborative process involving both career employees and political appointees. Is this the same process that was implemented in 2002 or is it a change from what was done between 2002 when you arrived at the Division? Ms. Becker. Senator, I joined the Division in 2006. I'm not quite sure what the 2002 process was that you're referring to. I can tell you how I--how we've been doing it in the Civil Rights Division since I've been there over the last 2 years, and it's a team approach, Senator. There--there--there are multiple attorneys that are involved at different levels, you know, trial attorney, deputy chief, chief, Deputy Assistant Attorney General, all--all involved in the process. It's a collaborative approach. There are certainly more career attorneys that are involved in the process than political--political-appointed managers, but it's--it's one where I've always believed that--that all the managers and the chain of command have an appropriate role, so long as they do not take political affiliation into account for career hires. Senator Feingold. Well, and other than instructing your staff that political considerations should not play a role in hiring, you don't plan to make any changes in that process, is that right? Ms. Becker. Senator--Senator, not--not at this time. But, you know, if I am--if I become aware that there is a problem, if there's an issue, certainly I will be open to reconsidering it as--as things arise. But this process has worked very successfully over the last 2 years during my management there, and I believe it's--it's a process that everyone on the team has been happy with. And from a manager's standpoint, I--I do not see any need to change it at this time. Senator Feingold. All right. As Senator Kennedy touched on earlier, sections of the Civil Rights Division that are charged with enforcing anti-discrimination statutes have brought fewer cases on behalf of minorities and women, and more cases on behalf of whites and men under this administration. Do you agree that the top priority of the Civil Rights Division should be protecting the rights of minorities, women, and other groups that have been an historic target of discrimination? Ms. Becker. Senator, I believe the Civil Rights Division has been, and will continue if I'm confirmed, hopefully, to--to bring cases on behalf of all Americans. Senator, I can tell you, from my experiencing in overseeing the Criminal Section, for example, that--that we bring many cases against many, many vulnerable victims. On the human trafficking front, for example, we've been able to help many women, women of color, over 1,000 women from over 80 countries, including U.S. citizen victims who have been horribly, horribly victimized through human trafficking. So, certainly, Senator, I--I believe it's important for us to vigorously enforce all of our statutes and--and go where the need is greatest. Senator Feingold. You know, I think we all agree that discrimination in all forms is intolerable, but the fact is, the resources of the Civil Rights Division are finite and every enforcement action represents a choice of how to allocate those resources. So my question is not whether or not a lot of cases have been brought with regard to the things you just mentioned, but shouldn't the Civil Rights Division prioritize the rights of those who suffer the most discrimination? Ms. Becker. Senator, it shouldn't have--I believe--we have, for example, in the post-9/11 era where there was a great concern about whether individuals who are Arab, Muslim, Sikh, or South Asian were being victimized through back--9/11 backlash. There's a--even before I came to the Civil Rights Division there was a 9/11 backlash initiative, and since then we've opened over 800 investigations to ensure that what happened to Asian-Americans in the World War II era was not repeated in the post-9/11 era, Senator. Senator Feingold. Well, I'm certainly hearing that these areas are being addressed. But what I'm getting at, and I'll let it be for now, is the mix. What are the priorities? Your answers were not clear on what the priorities are. I'm very concerned about the pattern of the Civil Rights Division coming into court and asking to set aside settlement agreements designed to benefit minorities and women that were reached under the previous administration. In these cases, the Civil Rights Division has become a de facto advocate for the very party that was accused of violating civil rights laws. Do you believe that attempting to set aside agreements intended to enforce compliance with civil rights law is an appropriate use of the Civil Rights Division's resources? Ms. Becker. Senator, I believe that any change in the Department's position should be exceptional. I am not aware, in the--in the two years that I've been overseeing the various sections within the Division, anywhere from 300 to 700 employees, that we've had such a change in policy. But I do think that that's an exceptional situation. If--if it, in fact, occurred, it was before my time. Senator Feingold. Well, I'd be interested in following that issue and how often it is done, and whether it's the right thing to do. You presented testimony before the United Nations Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, or CERD, which has recently issued its concluding observations on the United States' implementation of the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination. The CERD report noted a high level of concern, as you basically just alluded to, regarding the increase in racial profiling against Arabs, Muslims, and South Asians in the wake of the 9/11 attack. Expressing its concerns, the report references the Civil Rights Division's adoption of the revised publication entitled, ``Guidance Regarding the Use of Race by Federal Law Enforcement Agencies''. As head of the Civil Rights Division, will you commit to reviewing the policies in that manual to ensure that the administration is taking every possible step to end racial profiling? Ms. Becker. Senator, I know this is an interest that-- that--that you've had for some time with respect to racial profiling, and I've appreciated your leadership on this. I agree with the President that racial profiling is wrong. I first learned about the Civil Rights Division's guidelines on racial profiling while I was working here on this very Committee. And Senator, to be clear, even though it is labeled ``guidance'', it is binding on all Federal law enforcement officers here in the United States. There is extensive training that is going on in the Federal law enforcement arena. For example, at FLETC, the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center, not only do they receive training in racial profiling, they get the guidelines. They're tested on the guidelines. So it is something that we continue to take seriously in the Civil Rights Division. Senator Feingold. So you'll commit to reviewing policies in that manual to ensure that the administration is taking every possible step to end racial profiling, right? Ms. Becker. I'd be happy to work with you on racial profiling issues with respect to the guidance, if you have any concerns with respect to that. Senator Feingold. Why won't you just commit to reviewing the policies in that manual? Ms. Becker. I have reviewed them, Senator. I'm familiar with them. But I'm not quite sure what you--I've reviewed them while I've been at the Civil Rights Division, Senator. But I think-- Senator Feingold. I'm asking you again, as the head of the Civil Rights Division, if you are confirmed, will you do that? Ms. Becker. Senator, I will review it, and if there is appropriate action for me to take, I will take it. Senator Feingold. All right. The CERD report also encouraged the United States to adopt Federal legislation such as the End Racial Profiling Act which I've introduced in several Congresses, including this one. And you obviously are aware, by working there. Are you familiar with that--with that bill? Ms. Becker. Yes, I am, sir. Senator Feingold. And what is your view on the bill? Will you commit to working on it with the Congress? Ms. Becker. I'm not sure I could--I do not--I do not believe the Department has taken a position on it with respect to that bill, Senator. Senator Feingold. Do you have a view on the bill? You're familiar with it. Ms. Becker. I'm generally familiar with it, Senator. But as you know, the Department speaks with one voice, so I'd go back to the Department and I'd see whether or not the Department has taken a position on it, and as a representative of the Department that would be my position, sir. Senator Feingold. During his confirmation hearings, when asked about the mission of the Voting Rights section, Attorney General Mukasey stated, ``I believe that the Civil Rights Division must follow its traditional of focusing on the most prevalent and significant voting problems.'' Ms. Becker, in your view, which is the most prevalent and serious threat to American elections today, voter fraud or voter suppression? Ms. Becker. Senator, our focus in the Civil Rights Division has been--in the Federal laws that we have, which primarily target voter suppression. To the extent that there is voter fraud, there are other components of the Justice Department that are focused primarily with respect to that issue, sir. Senator Feingold. Let me switch to one other thing. The recent CERD articulated a concern about, as I indicated, the disparate impact of felon disenfranchisement laws on racial, ethnic, and national minorities, in particular, African- Americans. As I take it you're aware, more than 5.4 million Americans are disenfranchised by these laws which have an explicitly racist history and a markedly disproportionate impact. In some States, one in four African-American adults are disenfranchised because of the Jim Crow--these Jim Crow provisions. I will soon be introducing legislation to restore the right to vote to people on probation parole who have served their sentences. Ms. Becker, I would hope that, as the head of the section of the Department of Justice, that that should be at the forefront of protecting citizens from racial discrimination, protecting voting rights. You would agree that these felon disenfranchisement laws have no place in America today. Will you work with me to get the administration's support for legislation to adopt this unjust practice? Ms. Becker. Senator, I'd be happy to work with you on this, or any other, legislation. Senator Feingold. Will you support it? Ms. Becker. Senator, I--I haven't seen the bill. I can tell you that, generally, felon disenfranchisement laws, as I understand them, have been determined on a State-by-State basis. To the extent that they would come before the Civil Rights Division, I think it may be in a pre-clearance process, maybe one where it may be something that we'd have an opportunity to review some of these laws. I can tell you generally that any practice that--that could potentially implicate one of these statutes that we enforce in the Civil Rights Division is something that is of concern to us, particularly when it's involving suppressing the minority vote. So, Senator, I--I would be happy to work with you on this bill. I'm--I'm not familiar with the--the contours of the bill. Senator Feingold. I want to go back to the voting rights issue again one more time. Again, as we talked about with regard to the priorities of the Division in general, the resources of the Division are finite and the sitting Attorney General stated, ``those resources should be focused on the most prevalent and significant problems.'' In my view, all available nonpartisan evidence clearly shows while there are very few cases of voter fraud, our elections continue to be undermined by organized efforts to disenfranchise voters. Do you disagree with that assessment? Ms. Becker. Senator, generally the voter fraud provisions are handled by a different component of the Justice Department, so I'm not in a position to opine on them, sir. Senator Feingold. Well, I take it this just proves it. In the Senate, if you wait long enough, you become the Chairman. Is that what's happening here? I thank the witness very much and the hearing is adjourned. 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