[Senate Hearing 116-33]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 116-33
HEARING ON THE NOMINATION OF ROBERT
WALLACE TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY
FOR FISH, WILDLIFE, AND PARKS AT THE
DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR
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HEARING
before the
COMMITTEE ON
ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
JUNE 4, 2019
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Environment and Public Works
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
36-933 PDF WASHINGTON : 2019
COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS
ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming, Chairman
JAMES M. INHOFE, Oklahoma THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware, -
SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia Ranking Member
KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland
MIKE BRAUN, Indiana BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont
MIKE ROUNDS, South Dakota SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island
DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon
JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND, New York
ROGER WICKER, Mississippi CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey
RICHARD SHELBY, Alabama EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts
JONI ERNST, Iowa TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois
CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, Maryland
Richard M. Russell, Majority Staff Director
Mary Frances Repko, Minority Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
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Page
JUNE 4, 2019
OPENING STATEMENTS
Barrasso, Hon. John, U.S. Senator from the State of Wyoming...... 1
Carper, Hon. Thomas R., U.S. Senator from the State of Delaware.. 3
Enzi, Hon. Mike, U.S. Senator from the State of Wyoming.......... 5
WITNESSES
Wallace, Robert, Nominated to be Assistant Secretary for Fish,
Wildlife, and Parks, Department of the Interior................ 6
Prepared statement........................................... 9
Responses to additional questions from:
Senator Carper........................................... 12
Senator Booker........................................... 18
Senator Capito........................................... 19
Senator Cardin........................................... 20
Response to an additional question from Senator Markey....... 21
Response to an additional question from Senator Rounds....... 21
Responses to additional questions from:
Senator Sullivan......................................... 22
Senator Wicker........................................... 22
Senator Van Hollen....................................... 23
HEARING ON THE NOMINATION OF ROBERT WALLACE TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY
FOR FISH, WILDLIFE, AND PARKS AT THE DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR
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TUESDAY, JUNE 4, 2019
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Environment and Public Works,
Washington, DC.
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:05 a.m. in
room 406, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. John Barrasso
(chairman of the committee) presiding.
Present: Senators Barrasso, Carper, Cramer, Braun, Rounds,
Sullivan, Ernst, Cardin, Whitehouse, Markey, Van Hollen.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN BARRASSO,
U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF WYOMING
Senator Barrasso. Good morning. I call this hearing to
order.
Today we will consider the nomination of Rob Wallace to be
Assistant Secretary for Fish, Wildlife, and Parks at the
Department of the Interior. Once confirmed, he will oversee the
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and the National Park Service.
His confirmation will be especially important, as neither of
these agencies have Senate-confirmed leadership at this time.
He will play a central role in managing fish and wildlife for
the American public. That includes combatting invasive species,
recovering endangered species, protecting migratory birds,
restoring fisheries, and conserving and enhancing wildlife
habitat.
I have known Rob Wallace for over 35 years. Without
question, Rob is the right person for this job. Throughout his
long and distinguished career, Rob has struck the proper
balance between wildlife conservation, habitat management, and
the use of our public lands. Rob's experience and leadership in
Wyoming and in our Nation's capital are ideally suited for this
critically important position.
Throughout his 45-year career, Rob has served in a variety
of jobs that directly relate to the two Federal agencies that
he is being nominated to oversee. Rob began his career as a
seasonal park ranger in Grand Teton National Park. Since then,
Rob has served as Assistant Director of the National Park
Service, as Chief of Staff for Wyoming Senator Malcolm Wallop,
as Staff Director of the U.S. Senate Energy and Natural
Resources Committee, as Chief of Staff for Wyoming Governor Jim
Geringer, and as manager of U.S. Government Relations for GE
Energy.
Rob currently serves as President of the Upper Green River
Conservancy, the Nation's first cooperative conservation bank.
Rob co-founded the Upper Green River Conservancy to protect
core sage grouse habitat in the ecologically and energy-rich
upper Green River Watershed in Southwest Wyoming. He built an
innovative partnership of ranchers, conservation groups, energy
companies, investors and other stakeholders.
Rob is also a founding member of the board of the Grand
Teton National Park Foundation, which promotes the park's
cultural, historic and natural resources. He is a member of the
board of the Jackson Hole Land Trust, which protects open
spaces, wildlife habitat, and working lands across northwest
Wyoming.
In addition, Rob serves as a member of the University of
Wyoming's Energy Resources Council. The Council sets priorities
for energy-related academics, research and outreach. He has
also served on the boards of numerous organizations dedicated
to conserving wildlife and enhancing our national parks.
With credentials like these, it is no surprise that
stakeholders from across the political spectrum have
enthusiastically endorsed Rob's nomination. Dan Ashe, the
former Director of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service during
the Obama administration, and now the President and now the
President of the Association of Zoos and Aquariums, wrote, ``I
have a good context for what creates success in this important
and challenging position: a passion for the mission of the U.S.
Fish and Wildlife Service, and the National Park Service.'' He
goes on to say, ``An appreciation and admiration for the people
who do the work, a penchant for listening, and a dedication to
inclusive problem-solving.'' He concludes by saying, ``In my
view, Rob displays all of these crucial characteristics.''
Richie Jones, the State Director for the Nature Conservancy
in Delaware, also endorsed Rob's nomination. He has also
received the support of over 40 environmental, conservation,
and recreational organizations, including the National Parks
Conservation Association, the National Wildlife Refuge
Association, the Public Lands Council, Ducks Unlimited,
American Sportfishing Association, congressional Sportsmen
Foundation, and the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation
Partnership.
Confirming Rob is important to the work of this committee.
The Environment and Public Works Committee has jurisdiction
over fish and wildlife policy, including the U.S. Fish and
Wildlife Service. Earlier this year, Congress enacted the
Wildlife Innovation and Longevity Driver Act, also known as the
WILD Act. We did so to combat invasive species, to prevent
wildlife poaching and trafficking, to promote wildlife
conservation and to protect endangered species.
So I look forward to working with Rob to implement the WILD
Act. I am in the process of developing legislation to modernize
the Endangered Species Act. I continue to engage with State
fish and wildlife agencies, environmental groups, conservation
organizations, ranchers, farmers, energy producers, and others
from across the political spectrum. I hope to gain their
support and ultimately the support of a bipartisan group of
Senators for a bill that modernizes the Endangered Species Act
so it works better for species and for people.
Rob demonstrated to the Upper Green River Conservancy that
it is possible to build such a coalition, focused on solving
the problems of the Endangered Species Act. So I look forward
to working with him on modernizing this important law.
Rob Wallace is an outstanding choice for the position of
Assistant Secretary for Fish, Wildlife, and Parks. I look
forward to moving his nomination expeditiously through the
confirmation process.
I will now turn to Ranking Member Carper for his opening
statement.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. THOMAS R. CARPER,
U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF DELAWARE
Senator Carper. Thanks very much, Mr. Chairman. Mr.
Wallace, welcome. I want to welcome you and your daughters this
morning.
Also, I would like to welcome Senator Mike Enzi, one of our
favorite colleagues. I listened to the Chairman's opening
statement, it sounds like you have his support, and Mike Enzi's
support, Dan Ashe's support, Richie Jones' support from
Delaware, a whole host, like a Who's Who of organizations here
that represent and look after the fish and wildlife, endangered
species and habitat protection, conservation. This is one of
those deals where you may just want to ask somebody to make a
motion, and we just vote.
Senator Barrasso. So moved.
[Laughter.]
Senator Carper. We can all take an early lunch.
Seriously, we appreciate your willingness to do this. It is
always great to have Mike Enzi in the room, and we appreciate
your family being here, too. We appreciate your willingness to
serve in this role as Assistant Secretary for Fish and Wildlife
and Parks. I think it has to be a great job. Of all the jobs
you could have, this has to be one of the best.
The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and the National Park
Service are two agencies that, as we know, play critical roles
in managing and protecting our Nation's most treasured natural
resources and public lands. I am sure you will agree, given
your experience as a park ranger, as a youngster, and as
someone who has lived a life that I think you can be proud of.
In Delaware, we are extremely proud of our two national
wildlife refuges, and one of the Country's newest national
parks, the First State National Historical Park. Our refuges
are home to threatened and endangered species, and people from
all over the world travel to Delaware to visit these refuges,
as well as our national park.
Overseeing these agencies and beloved public lands is no
small task, but one that you seem prepared for, and I believe
are passionate about. I especially appreciate the statement in
your testimony, and this is a quote from you, ``Bipartisan
solutions are always the lasting ones. Those are words of
wisdom.''
I could not agree more. And I hope that we will be able to
count on you to bring that balanced approach to the
Administration's Department of the Interior.
Unfortunately, having said that, unfortunately, the
Department and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service in particular
have taken actions in the last couple of years that could
jeopardize our Nation's wildlife without bipartisan support
from Members of Congress. Specifically, the Administration has
proposed regulation that could dramatically alter
implementation of the Endangered Species Act, one of our
Nation's most popular and effective environmental laws. These
regulations could undermine the science that is supposed to
drive species protection decisions.
This Administration has also adopted an unprecedented legal
opinion relative to the Migratory Bird Treaty Act, a stance
that former top Fish and Wildlife Service officials from both
Republican and Democratic administrations have vehemently
opposed. What is more, the Trump Administration has reassigned
dozens of Department of Interior senior executive service
employees without good reasons, which is reportedly creating a
culture of fear within the Department. Surpassing the expertise
of career public servants is an injustice to natural resources
that the Department is tasked with managing.
All of these actions, along with a number of others, are
deeply concerning. Mr. Wallace, I would just say, as this
committee considers your nomination, I hope you will heed these
concerns and clearly convey a willingness to moderate some of
these trouble actions. I also hope that we can work together to
find bipartisan opportunities that support both solid science
and conservation.
I believe that tackling climate change is one such
opportunity. And due to climate change, our treasured national
parks and refuges in the west are increasingly beset by
catastrophic fires. Worsening storms are damaging our coastal
parks and refuges.
Recently, the National Parks Conservation Association found
that out of 417 parks surveyed, 96 percent faced significant
air quality problems. You will learn more about how you will
work to address these challenges. I believe it is now more
important than ever that we work together to make sure our
parks and our refuges are more resilient to climate change so
that Americans may have the opportunity to visit these places
for generations to come.
Mr. Wallace, you also possess a great deal of expertise in
habitat conservation and mitigation. You and I have discussed
your work in both Wyoming and in Delaware on projects that mean
a great deal to each of us and to this committee. Clearly, you
understand the importance of mitigating negative impacts on our
environment. I believe that understanding provides another
great opportunity for you to lead within the Department of the
Interior.
So we look forward to hearing how you will utilize this
expertise as Assistant Secretary for Fish and Wildlife and
Parks if confirmed. Right now, we need qualified leaders who
are committed to safeguarding our natural resources. I feel
confident that you are up to that challenge.
Thank you again for joining us. Again, welcome to your
family. We look forward to hearing your testimony and to the
conversation that will follow your testimony. Thank you.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Carper.
Seeing that Senator Enzi is here, I think if there is any
Senator that is mentioned in this committee, who is not a
member of this committee, the No. 1 person on that list would
be Mike Enzi, as you talk about his 80-20 rule, a good way to
get things done legislatively and in a bipartisan way and
working for the way.
Senator Carper. Absolutely. I was in an Aspen Institute
seminar in Prague last week, and we focused on U.S. relations
with China, U.S. relations with Russia. We talked about Mike
Enzi and the 80-20 rule. So you are all over the charts and all
over the map.
Senator Barrasso. With that, let me welcome to the Senate
Committee on Environment and Public Works Senator Mike Enzi,
Senior Senator for Wyoming, who will do the introduction.
Senator Enzi, thanks so much for joining us today.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MIKE ENZI,
U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF WYOMING
Senator Enzi. Mr. Chairman. Chairman Barrasso and Ranking
Member Carper, it is my privilege to introduce Rob Wallace, who
is testifying in front of your committee today on his
nomination to serve as Assistant Secretary for Fish, Wildlife,
and Parks at the Department of Interior.
I have known Rob for many years, probably most of his life.
I don't think there could be a better choice to fill the
position. I am going to repeat some of the things that Chairman
Barrasso said. I am a retailer, and I know that when you run an
ad the first time, hardly anybody gets it. If you run it again,
a few more do. And I would be willing to run this several times
if it would help on the nomination.
Rob was born and raised in Wyoming, where he quickly
learned the important role that the Department of Interior
plays in the upkeep of our State's natural beauty. In fact,
Rob's first job after college was with the National Park
Service. He served as a seasonal ranger in Grand Teton National
Park. For 5 years, Rob helped with the preservation and
maintenance of one of our Nation's finest parks.
His passion for our Nation's public lands sent him here to
Washington, where he handled energy and environment issues for
former Wyoming Senator Malcolm Wallop, and before leaving
Capitol Hill, he served as staff director of the Energy and
Natural Resources Committee. He returned to Sheridan and the
incredible Big Horn Mountains, until Rob once again came back
to Washington, where he served as Assistant Director for the
National Park Service for congressional and Legislative
Affairs.
During this time, he supervised the Reagan administration's
legislative agenda for national parks, which included
readjusting visitor entrance fees, providing resources to fight
the 1988 forest fires, and adding several new units to the
national park system. In 1989, Rob became Senator Wallop's
Chief of Staff, before heading back to the Senate Energy and
Natural Resources Committee in 1991, to again serve as staff
director.
I first met Rob in 1995, when he served as Chief of Staff
to the Wyoming Governor Jim Geringer, and I was in the State
legislature. These days, Rob is still involved in Wyoming and
the management of our public lands. Rob serves as the president
of the Upper Green River Conservancy. Now, that is a sage
grouse habitat bank that partners with ranchers, energy
companies and conservation groups that work together to protect
critical sage grouse habitat.
Rob's career and character reflect a man willing to step up
and serve his community and Country. His years of experience at
Interior and in the halls of Congress have well suited him to
this new chapter. I am pleased to introduce him to you today,
and I hope you will give his nomination full and fair
consideration.
[The prepared statement of Senator Enzi follows:]
Senator Barrasso. Thank you for joining us, Senator Enzi.
We will have another opportunity tomorrow to introduce Rob,
because this is one of those positions that requires hearings
in two committees, the Environment and Public Works Committee
and the Energy Committee. So I look forward to seeing you again
tomorrow morning in that committee as we introduce our friend,
Rob.
You are welcome to stay as long as you like. I know you
have a pressing schedule, but thanks for being with us and
joining us today, Senator Enzi. Thank you.
Now, I would like to welcome to our committee the nominee,
Rob Wallace, the nominee to be Assistant Secretary for Fish,
Wildlife, and Parks at the Department of the Interior. I want
to remind you; your full written testimony will be made part of
the record. I look forward to hearing your testimony. I see
some of your family are here. I know many of your friends are
here. So, please, begin at your convenience.
Mr. Wallace. With the opening statement, Senator?
Senator Barrasso. Please, and if you would like to
introduce your family, as well.
STATEMENT OF ROBERT WALLACE, NOMINATED TO BE ASSISTANT
SECRETARY FOR FISH, WILDLIFE, AND PARKS, DEPARTMENT OF THE
INTERIOR
Mr. Wallace. Absolutely. Chairman Barrasso, Ranking Member
Carper and members of the committee, thank you for having me
here today. I am grateful to the President for nominating me to
this position, and thank Secretary Bernhardt for his support.
I would also like to recognize family members who are here
from Wyoming today, my wife, Celia, who is not only a
remarkable partner but epitomizes the spirit of bipartisanship,
having worked for both a Democrat and Republican member of the
Senate years ago.
My oldest daughter, Morgan, just finished her sophomore
year in engineering at Wake Forest University, and is down from
New York where she is doing a renewable energy internship this
summer. And my youngest daughter, Ella, finished fourth grade
and cannot be here today, because she is home studying for the
SSAT in the event she has to apply for a new school next fall.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Wallace. The four of us live a mile south of Grand
Teton National Park and the Yellowstone ecosystem. Each year,
our community hosts millions of visitors who come to play in
two of the world's majestic national parks. They also marvel at
the abundant wildlife we all enjoy, thanks to wise management
by State and Federal officials, and the National Elk Refuge,
located in the heart of our valley.
But I know that simply living in a special place isn't
sufficient justification to ask for your support to oversee two
of the world's most celebrated agencies, the National Park
Service, and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. So I would
like to explain a little bit about how I got here.
My journey began decades ago when I was hired right out of
college as a seasonal park ranger in Grand Teton National Park.
For the next 5 years, I patrolled the park's rivers and lakes,
worked with the mountain rescue team, enforced the game and
fish regulations, performed law enforcement operations and
emergency medical services on the park's highways, and traveled
on skis for days at a time across the Yellowstone and Grand
Teton back country. And in the fall, if my park work ended
early, I worked at an elk hunting camp at a nearby national
forest.
But it wasn't the daily adventures that had the most
profound effect on me. It was the political issues that swirled
around every aspect of my job. Here was a place where
dignitaries from around the world had traveled to attend the
Second World Conference on National Parks, and where the
President of the United States came to relax. Up the road, in
Yellowstone, a raging debate was brewing over how to wean
grizzly bears off human garbage. And in the Tetons, vibrant
conversation was underway about fire management, search and
rescue, visitors' use, and resource protection.
In an effort to find a way to get more involved in these
issues and others, I quit my park job and volunteered on a
campaign for Malcolm Wallop, who was running for the U.S.
Senate from Wyoming. His race succeeded, and suddenly I had a
front-row seat to some of the most consequential energy,
wildlife and natural resource issues in a generation.
Starting my Senate career as an LA, following the EPW
committee, and ending up as the minatory staff director of the
Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee, I was here when
Congress tackled the Alaska Lands legislation, a crippling oil
embargo, the Three Mile Island nuclear accident, the Exxon
Valdez oil spill, the restructuring of the U.S. electricity
industry, controversial endangered species issues, such as the
spotted owl and the snail darter, and much more.
I also broadened my understanding of new park
authorizations, fee legislation, concession oversight and the
importance of timely communications with Congress, while
heading the Park Service's office of congressional Relations.
Later, as chief of staff to the Governor of Wyoming, I was in
the middle of wolf reintroduction in Yellowstone.
I ended my time in Washington working for GE, where my
primary responsibility was leading a policy team that focused
on the deployment of clean energy technologies in the United
States and around the world. Over the years, I also became a
champion of public-private partnerships, through serving on
boards of several natural resources organizations, whose
missions were to help fund infrastructure projects, augment
wildlife research budgets, and provide opportunities for young
people to work and learn on our public lands. Today, I work on
the frontiers of the Endangered Species Act in southwestern
Wyoming, bringing ranchers, regulators, conservationists, and
industry leaders together to protect large-scale habitats of
the greater sage grouse, while removing barriers to multiple
use.
Along the way, I have learned so much, especially that no
one ever wins by winning everything, that bipartisan solutions
are always the lasting solutions, and that the key success to
management is recruiting good people and trusting them to do
their jobs.
Finally, if confirmed, I want to stress my commitment to
work constructively with Congress on behalf of our parks,
refuges, fish, and wildlife. If well-meaning people engage in
good faith and communicate effectively, the benefit to these
national treasures can be unlimited.
I thank you, and I look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Wallace follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Barrasso. Thanks so much for your testimony.
Welcome to your family here today.
Throughout this hearing, and with questions for the record,
the committee members are going to have the opportunity to
learn more about your commitment to public service for our
great Nation.
I have to ask a couple of questions for the record, which
we do of all nominees. The first is, do you agree, if
confirmed, to appear before this committee or designated
members of the committee and other appropriate committees of
Congress and provide information, subject to appropriate and
necessary security protection, with respect to your
responsibilities?
Mr. Wallace. I do.
Senator Barrasso. And do you agree to ensure that
testimony, briefings, documents and electronic and other forms
of information are provided to this committee and its staff and
other appropriate committees in a timely manner?
Mr. Wallace. Yes.
Senator Barrasso. And do you know of any matters, which you
may or may not have disclosed, that might place you in any
conflict of interest if you are confirmed?
Mr. Wallace. I do not.
Senator Barrasso. I will now begin with questions. Then we
will alternate back and forth, Senator Carper will go after I
do.
Can you just explain a little bit about how your
experiences that you have had prepared you to oversee the
National Park Service and the Fish and Wildlife Service? You
talked a bit about it in your opening statement. Anything else
that comes to mind in terms of specific experience? I know you
have been a rescue ranger, worked the back country, have seen
it from all different levels.
Mr. Wallace. I think one of the great things about being
here at this time in my career is having seen a lot of
different aspects of both the Park Service and the Fish and
Wildlife Service and the Endangered Species Act, to the point
where you see the power of good people coming together to solve
complicated problems. I have seen that throughout my career. I
know you all work with it every day in the committee.
But it is the belief, as I said in my statement, people
working in good faith on complicated issues can achieve
remarkable, good things.
Senator Barrasso. And along that line, I think about the
American Water Infrastructure Act that we got through the
Senate 99 to 1, it authorizes increased funding for things like
watercraft inspection stations, in order to stop the spread of
aquatic invasive species. The committee also led the enactment
of the WILD Act, Wildlife Innovation and Longevity Driver Act,
requires the specific agencies to develop strategic plans to
reduce invasive species, on lands that they manage, and
provides, actually, cash prizes for innovative solutions to
better combat the invasive species.
What is your assessment, if I could, of the invasive
species threat to our Nation's wildlife in the national park
system, and can we better use and coordinate efforts along
those lines?
Mr. Wallace. That is a question I have thought a lot about
since the President nominated me for this position. We have,
Senator Barrasso, as you know, invasive species in Wyoming,
whether it is cheat grass or lake trout in Yellowstone or even
trying to prevent quagga mussels from getting into the Snake
River drainage and getting all the way down into the Columbia
River. Every time I heard the word invasive species, I think it
is just going to turn out like a bad vampire movie, because it
is something that whatever you do, you are not going to be able
to curtail.
I think, if confirmed for this position, it is a chance to
really think through what the departments are already doing,
and see if we have to take our game up to a different level.
Because they are everywhere.
Senator Barrasso. I am thinking about the time you were
chief of staff for Governor Geringer. He served at the same
time Senator Carper was a Governor, so we have the State side
of this, then we have the Federal side of it. Do you have any
thoughts on how we can foster better coordination between
Federal and State wildlife agencies? Because States are putting
a lot of money into wildlife efforts as well.
Mr. Wallace. I have. The word partner is a very easy word
to say, we all say partner, but it is a lot harder to do. It
takes a lot of work. What do you mean by partnerships? It is
respecting the government-to-government partnerships between
tribes and between States and sometimes local communities, it
is respecting the partnerships between NGO's and conservation
groups that care deeply.
And a partnership is a partnership. That is what you commit
to, you work with a State, you get the best advice from the
professionals that work on an issue, and you work
constructively toward a solution.
Senator Barrasso. And I want to pick up on the word
partnership, because, as you used it, under the leadership of
this committee, the reauthorization of what is the Partners for
Fish and Wildlife program was enacted into law in March. It is
a voluntary program encouraging U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
and private landowners, because I had asked you about State and
Federal, but I am talking about now U.S. Fish and Wildlife and
private landowners to work together on habitat conservation and
restoration projects. Can you talk about proactive, voluntary
conservation efforts, by landowners, private entities, when it
comes to protecting wildlife and their habitat?
Mr. Wallace. I look forward to working with you and the
committee and others and implementing that Act, if confirmed.
Senator Barrasso. So there is an important role, working
with the private landowners as well, and other private
entities, in terms of working along those lines.
As Assistant Secretary, you are going to oversee both the
Fish and Wildlife Service and the National Park Service.
Although these agencies have fundamentally different missions,
the authorities often overlap, certainly on lands across the
west. You have seen it first-hand in Grand Teton and
Yellowstone National Parks. The lands provide habitat for
important species and are also drivers of the local economies.
You see it all around Wyoming.
If confirmed, how would you balance the diverse and
sometimes competing missions of these two different agencies
that you will oversee?
Mr. Wallace. I think, Senator, the issue there is the
interagency working groups that have come together on grizzly
bears and others that we have seen throughout Wyoming and I am
sure in other parts of the west. It is making sure those
interagency groups are working together, coordinating with one
another and not creating confusing data for the public to
digest and try and understand.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you. Senator Carper.
Senator Carper. I was happy to hear the name Jim Geringer.
We served together 6 years, I was elected in 1992, he was
elected in 1994. Wonderful man, and it was a joy to serve with
him.
I don't mean to ask a bunch of yes or no questions. I would
ask three of them, and then I'll ask questions that will take
more than yes or no to respond to.
The first question is, do you agree with our Nation's
leading scientists, including those within the Department of
Interior, who have concluded that climate change is real, is
caused in large part by humans, and is impacting fish, wildlife
and parks? Do you agree with that?
Mr. Wallace. Senator, I do agree that climate change is an
issue and that humans have a very important role in that
situation.
Senator Carper. That is good. Thank you. Second question.
Do you question the conclusions of the Fourth National Climate
Assessment that stated our Nation's ecosystems and economy are
at grave risk in the decades to come if we do not take climate
actions today?
Mr. Wallace. Senator, to be perfectly honest, I haven't
read the assessment. I am aware of it, along with the IPCC 1.5.
Yes, I am aware of the issues. I know that scientists are
clearly moving in that direction. But to be fair, I have not
read the report.
Senator Carper. I will just ask you to answer again, for
the record.
Mr. Wallace. OK.
Senator Carper. Thank you.
Last yes or no question. Do you commit to this committee
that if confirmed, you will not directly or indirectly
interfere or undermine climate science?
Mr. Wallace. Senator, I believe in the importance of
climate science and the independence of science.
Senator Carper. I will take that, thank you. Followup
question, if I could. As Assistant Secretary for Fish and
Wildlife and Parks, what will you do to make our parks and
refuges more resilient in the face of climate change?
Mr. Wallace. Let me take a drink of water on that one.
Senator Carper. I will say it again while you take a drink
of water. As Assistant Secretary for Fish and Wildlife and
Parks, what will you do to make our parks and refuges more
resilient in the face of climate change?
Mr. Wallace. Let me, if I could, sort of describe my job,
if confirmed, how I see it, Senator. If you looked at the
combined assets of both the Fish and Wildlife Service and the
National Park Service, there is approximately 1,000 units in 50
States and 5 territories. If you look at, I guess one way I
would look at your climate question is, to understand where the
stress is on all of these different agencies, or all of these
different areas, and have a system in place where you are
systematically evaluating how they stand.
So in the example of climate change, we know that the
Governor of Louisiana is trying to adapt for that anticipation
by thinking of moving communities up off of southeastern
Louisiana. You see the Fish and Wildlife Service doing coastal
resiliency projects in North Carolina with oyster bed
construction.
In Alaska, with melting sea ice, it is a completely
different sort of equation, and how do you evaluate it. And
also perhaps the coast of Oregon or Washington State, where
they are worried about ocean acidification.
But there are also other issues, I think, that adds stress
to it that I could not ignore if in this position. We talked
about invasive species, what is habitat fragmentation doing to
migratory corridors in other parts. If you care deeply about
historic areas in the National Park Service, what about
battlefields, like Champion Hills and Vicksburg that may be
rounded out if the parks focus on that? So I certainly
acknowledge the climate issue, and I also acknowledge that
there are other stressors within the system that I would also
be responsible for.
But let me tell you how I would look at all three of those.
First of all, and foremost, follow the law. What does the law
say you have to do, can't do or should do? No. 1. No. 2 is,
follow the science. What are your professionals telling you
about how to solve these problems? And it is not just the
50,000-foot science, it is the sort of on the ground science,
by science managers, applied science, if you will. What are
they telling you to do about the problem?
Then the third, and I talked about this with Senator
Barrasso, I think it is very important, it is the role of
partnerships. You can't solve scale problems unless you can
figure out how to be a good partner. Sometimes the Federal
Government is the alpha and the partnership debate, and I don't
think that is the right construct, especially given so many
interests from so many groups around the Country to get
involved.
Senator Carper. We will take that question; I might come
back with a question for the record and you can have a chance
to think about it and respond further. If we have another round
of questions, I will ask a few more questions. Thank you.
Senator Barrasso. Senator Cramer.
Senator Cramer. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, thank
you, Mr. Wallace, for being here.
When Secretary Bernhardt was going through this same
process, he and I dug in a little a little bit on a few issues
that, I don't want to call them North Dakota specific, but they
are rather North Dakota-centric. One in particular that centers
around the prairie pothole region, and what I think is somewhat
of a unique situation for North Dakota, in that our farmers,
over the last century or so, in our rectangle up there in the
northern part of our Country, had been such great stewards of
water that they didn't drain a lot of land when it was vogue to
do that throughout the prairie. Consequently, sometimes I think
their good actions earlier have been probably biting them a
little bit.
So when it comes to specifically WPAs, or the watershed
protection area easements that some of our farmers have
inherited from their great-grandfather or grandfathers, with
the lack of a clear delineation, historically poor mapping,
what I consider an inadequate appeals process, lack of
consistency with NRCS, particularly Swampbuster, enforcement
inconsistencies, I raised all these issues with the Secretary
in hopes that we could work on together, between stakeholders,
partners, politically diverging ideals, in a way to provide
better clarity for our farmers and avoid what I consider
sometimes to be enforcement or regulatory takings.
With your background, it seems to me you like have a great
background. I was thinking specifically in fact about your sage
grouse habitat mitigation work. I would just sort of challenge
you at this level now and then we can certainly get into more
specifics at a later time, as you get into the job. Just
looking for ideas on how we can help these farmers, both within
the legal construct, but then with advice, and like I said, if
there is a mitigation plan that can accomplish everybody's
goals while at the same time allowing our farmers to continue
to grow food for a growing world population.
I just want to plant that seed with you and look forward to
a very specific discussion.
Also, by the way, the Secretary committed to coming out to
visit with our farmers. If you are confirmed prior to whenever
that trip takes place, it would be great if you could join him
on that trip. But first of all, just sort of in general, any
thoughts about WPA easements and some work that we can maybe
get done that again, accomplishes everybody's goals without
further taking from our landowners?
Mr. Wallace. One of the great things about this job, if I
am confirmed, is to think about issues that I don't know a lot
about. Right now, I can tell you this, Senator, if this is
important to you, I will be committed to learning a lot more
about it, perhaps coming to visit with you and meet some of
your constituents and hear first-hand the challenges you have.
And to the degree that it is within my ability in the
department to help, given the legal and scientific issues that
will also be there, more than happy to do that.
Senator Cramer. I appreciate that. And I think one of the
things you bring to the job, and you and I had not met before,
but when you have such a strong endorsement as the two Senators
from Wyoming have given, it is hard to argue with you, to be
honest, not just because he is the Chairman, because I am a
member of two Wyoming Senators' chairmanship, but because they
are such quality people.
You seem to be able to bridge the political intricacies
pretty effectively. That is not a minor issue. As you point
out, Delaware and Wyoming, we oftentimes find big differences.
But you seem to have that ability, and I would look forward to
tapping into that capacity that you have to accomplish these
things.
So I am just going to leave it at that for now, but I look
forward to further discussion.
Mr. Wallace. I look forward to learning more about it,
Senator. Thank you.
Senator Cramer. Thank you. I look forward to further
discussion.
Senator Carper. I would add that there is a Wyoming,
Delaware. And it just south of Dover.
[Laughter.]
Senator Carper. I have great affection for Wyoming,
Delaware.
Senator Barrasso. Senator Braun.
Senator Braun. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
This is always an enjoyable conversation for me, because I
practice conservation and at home during our recess, will never
give up that part of it, get a few fishing trips in and so
forth.
I think it is sometimes overwhelming, invasive species. I
have been fighting them on my own properties for years. I
wonder how far that has gotten out of hand to where we can
mostly try to contain rather than eliminate. But I don't want
to focus on that now, I want to focus on what I have observed
over time and have you weigh in on it.
Twice during the break, I saw bald eagles on private lakes
where, my goodness, where until maybe 10, 12 years ago in
Indiana, when I was on the White River, had not seen a bald
eagle. And now, they were doing so well, they are starting to
colonize a lot of small lakes and places where you never
imagined.
Beavers, I remember as a kid I saw one on Potoka Lake when
I was about 15 years old. It was like a rare sighting. Deer
were basically extinct in Indiana until conservation efforts
turned around.
I noticed a lot of good stuff, including otters, to where
now there is an open season on otters, simply because they have
been reintroduced and are doing so well. Bobcats would be on
the cusp.
So when we talk about fish and wildlife, weigh in on what
is good that is happening. Because it is depressing, to be
honest, when we focus on invasive species. I know we need to,
just, how do we grapple with it? Talk a little bit about what
you have observed over the last few decades and are really wins
and pluses, put it in perspective with all the challenges we
have.
Mr. Wallace. Well, Senator, I have observed the same thing
that you have over time. When I was a ranger in the Grand
Teton, the bald eagles were still at risk. Now, they are
abundant. We have also seen in Wyoming peregrine falcons come
back, black footed ferrets, through some very collaborative
breeding. Sage grouse, which a lot of us have been working to
keep off the endangered species list. Whooping cranes, grizzly
bears have come back. They have come back in force in Wyoming.
So you sure look at the wise management of these wildlife
laws and say, it has been a success. At the same time, you want
to know, what can we do better going forward, are there wiser
ways to manage, to think about species recovery. I am fully
aware that will be a responsibility of mine if confirmed for
this job.
Senator Braun. So in general, then, I think it would be
fair to say that some of the particulars of especially
conservation and wildlife preservation, we have a lot of good
things to talk about. Would you view either invasive species
and/or climate change as being things that in the near term
could set back any of that, where we have had such rapid
progression in the right direction? Do you view either one of
those, because I agree both are intractable issues. We have to
find out a way to deal with them.
Do you see any of the gains we have made in somewhat
immediate threat, or do you think that is in the longer context
as well?
Mr. Wallace. That is a great question, and I think about
it, too, because climate is on the minds of lots of people, the
public, members. If you look at what is happening in the
Florida Everglades with the Burmese python, there are songbirds
at risk of blinking out down there because of that invasive
species. In Wyoming, about 25 years ago, a bucket biologist
dumped a bunch of lake trout into Yellowstone Lake, as
predators of one of the world's richest natural cutthroat
populations anywhere in the world. Pound for pound, lake trout
wins every time over a cutthroat. That was an important food
group for the grizzly bears during the spawning. It really
started to upset the entire balance of Yellowstone.
It took biologists a number of years to figure out they had
an invasive species problem, and then what to do about it. It
was more than just letting everybody go out and catch as many
lake trout as they wanted. Because the lake trout were winning
that fight every day. They finally brought commercial seiners
in from the Great Lakes that are catching hundreds of thousands
of lake trout a year. I talked to the superintendent a few days
ago, he said they put as much in gill netting down in
Yellowstone Lake every year to stretch from Yellowstone to
Naples, Florida, just to get a handle on an invasive species.
So it goes to your point, Senator, that I think the Federal
agencies and State agencies need to be observant to identifying
a potential risk, is it coming, what can you do to prevent it.
If it is here, how do you stabilize it, and then what do you do
to reverse it. Those threats, I believe there is an Asian Carp
Coalition here from members in the Mississippi and the Great
Lakes. It is a big issue. I would be glad to have support to
think seriously about that.
Senator Braun. Thank you.
Mr. Wallace. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Barrasso. Senator Markey, welcome.
Senator Markey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, very much.
The Monomoy Refuge, Mr. Wallace, in 2015, the Fish and
Wildlife Service finalized a revised comprehensive conservation
plan for the Monomoy National Wildlife Refuge that
reinterpreted the refuge boundaries to include the waters and
submerged lands to the west of the refuge. This potentially
makes it harder for Chatham residents to moor fishing boats,
hunt or collect shellfish in those waters as they have been
doing so for years.
The Trump Administration has advocated for more
recreational access to public lands, refuges and parks. But in
the Monomoy Refuge, the Town of Chatham and its residents are
concerned that they are losing their longstanding access.
Mr. Wallace, if confirmed, will you commit to working with
me to ensure public access, while also protecting the
environment in this special place?
Mr. Wallace. Senator, I will. I know this is a very
important issue to you. You have raised it at Interior. I have
had a chance to learn a little bit about it by speaking with
your staff recently. If it would be helpful, I would be happy
to come up there with you to meet with the people in Chatham
and understand it first-hand. Thank you.
Senator Markey. Yes, the town of Chatham has been a great
steward of these waters, dating back more than 60 years. I am a
strong supporter of our national refuges and believe that our
beautiful lands and waters deserve protection. It is my hope
that we can find a resolution to this issue that continues to
protect and safeguard this unique piece of our Country. So I
would appreciate it if you would come.
Mr. Wallace, if you are confirmed, you would be in charge
of our parks and refuges, a collection of national treasures
that belong to all Americans. As Senator Carper has already
noted in his questions, climate change is threatening these
beautiful wild places. Rainfall is down, wildfires are up, bark
beetles and pathogens are spreading and species are
disappearing.
Mr. Wallace, to followup on Senator Carper's conversation
with you, will you commit to addressing the climate crisis as
part of your management of our national parks, wildlife,
refuges, if confirmed?
Mr. Wallace. Senator, yes. The key, as I mentioned earlier,
there are three stools to this. You have to adapt and to
moderate the consequences of not only climate, but invasive
species. But to do that within the law, with what the
scientists are telling us and to work in strong partnership to
do that work.
Senator Markey. Yes, I just don't think it is possible to
responsible stewards and conservationists if we are not dealing
with the consequences of the climate crisis. It just goes hand
in glove for the rest of our lives. We have to responsibly deal
with that.
The State of Alaska is proposing the development of a 200-
mile industrial road that would cut through the gates of the
Arctic National Preserve and bisect one of the longest land
migration routes in the world. Western Arctic caribou herd
travels as far as 2,700 miles a year from their wintering
grounds along the Bering Sea to their calving grounds on the
Arctic coastal plain. This migration is longer than the
distance between New York and Seattle, and it could be cutoff
if this road moves forward.
Mr. Wallace, are you aware of this proposal and the
planning process currently underway?
Mr. Wallace. Senator, I am actually not that familiar. Of
course, from the news, but I haven't been down to the
Department of Interior yet, having just been the nominee for 22
days. But I know this is an issue that will be in my office and
I will be quickly getting up to speed on it.
Senator Markey. Obviously, this road is going to have a
huge impact on wildlife and public lands in the region. So we
are going to be working with you on this overseeing what is
going to be taking place here. Because it could have severe
adverse impacts in that region. We are just going to be
expecting you to work with us to make sure that damage does not
occur.
So thank you, Mr. Chairman, very much.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you very much, Senator Markey.
We are fortunate to have joining us now the Senator from
Alaska, who may have some input on that very issue.
Senator Sullivan. Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I really
love my colleague, Ed Markey. He and I work together on a bunch
of things. But his attention to Alaska sometimes astounds me.
[Laughter.]
Senator Sullivan. Because with all due respect to the
Senator from Alaska, I care a hell of a lot more about Alaska
and my constituents than he does. So I am just trying to get
the numbers of miles of roads that Alaska has relative to
Massachusetts. My State is probably, well, I know it is 491
times the size of Rhode Island.
Senator Whitehouse. Yes, you had to say that.
[Laughter.]
Senator Sullivan. But it is probably at least 200 times the
size of Massachusetts. And I guarantee you, Massachusetts has
more roads than my State. So most Alaskans really want roads.
And here is the thing. Unfortunately, radical environmental
groups always do this, oh, my God, everything is going to die
when you build a road, a damned road. In most States, you can
build a road anywhere you want, and you don't have 80
environmental groups suing to stop it. But in my State, you try
to build a road, one damned road, and you will have so many
outside groups who don't care about my constituents, suing to
stop a road.
Most people just assume you can build a road anywhere in
America. Can't build a road in Alaska, though, because of
colleagues like my friend, good friend Ed Markey, who want to
stop roads.
Senator Barrasso. What is the number on the roads?
Senator Sullivan. We have a third the number of miles of
roads than Massachusetts, and we are probably at least 200
times the size of the State. So just take that one there, Mr.
Wallace. We are going to be working on making sure--and by the
way, when you hear the parade of horribles, remember last time
there was a parade of horrible on the porcupine caribou herd is
when we built the Trans-Alaska pipeline, one of the most
important features of American energy independence in certainly
our Country.
The parade of horribles was the porcupine caribou herd was
going to be destroyed. It increased four times the size when
the pipeline was built. Now, you never hear the radical
environmental groups saying that, because it wasn't true. The
same stuff is going on with the development of Anwar, which you
are going to have a role in, which this Congress passed, the
President signed, the Alaskan people want it, almost 70 percent
want it.
So we are going to work with you on that as well. But don't
believe the hype. We need roads in Alaska. They are not going
to harm the caribou. And the outside groups that want to shut
down Alaska, who none of them live there, by the way, you are
going to listen to my constituents more than those groups,
because my constituents want roads, we need roads.
This just kind of aggravates me, as you can see. I have so
many Senators caring about roads in my State, when they have a
lot more roads than my State does. And it is not fair, it is
not fair. You can't build a road in Alaska, because outside
groups stop to sue it, sue to stop it. It is outrageous. I wish
they would come and sue when you guys in Rhode Island or
Massachusetts wanted to build a road. Nobody sues to stop
building roads in your States. But they all come to my State.
So we are going to work on that, and we are going to build
that road. And it is not going to hurt the caribou at all.
So let me get to my questions. Mr. Wallace, the Supreme
Court recently ruled nine to zero, Elena Kagan in a landmark
decision for Alaska in a case just recently, called Sturgeon v.
Frost, which was about ANILCA. I am sure you are familiar with
ANILCA, another huge Federal law that tried to lock up Alaska
passed in 1980. To just kind of--well, first, have you read the
Sturgeon v. Frost case?
Mr. Wallace. Senator, I have not.
Senator Sullivan. So before we vote on your confirmation, I
think it is critical that you read that decision. Can I get
your commitment that you will?
Mr. Wallace. If it is important to you, Senator, I will do
that, yes.
Senator Sullivan. It is a really important case. It
essentially says that for decades, ANILCA has not been
implemented correctly by Federal agencies, Fish and Wildlife
Service, National Park Service. So I would like to get a
commitment with you, this is a nine to zero Supreme Court case,
to work with me as you look to revise your regulations that
would implement the holding of the U.S. Supreme Court nine to
zero in Sturgeon v. Frost. Can I get your commitment to work
with me and my office on that?
Mr. Wallace. Senator, if it is an important issue to you,
it will be an important issue to me.
Senator Barrasso. Can I interrupt for 1 second, Senator?
So, ANILCA, for those of us, it is the Alaska National Interest
Lands Conservation Act passed in 1980.
Senator Sullivan. Correct.
Senator Barrasso. For some other members of the committee
and the audience. Thank you.
Senator Sullivan. Thank you. And let me ask, I know I am
running out of time, I didn't think I was going to talk about
roads, but my colleague got me spun up on that.
We have a problem in southeast Alaska with sea otters,
which have grown in enormous numbers in terms of population.
They are not listed as endangered. And they are having a very
negative impact on a very important industry in southeast
Alaska, shellfish, fin fish, fisheries. I was just in southeast
Alaska the last couple of weeks and this issue is reaching kind
of an emergency level proportions.
Can I get your commitment, Mr. Wallace, if confirmed, to
work with me and my office on addressing this big issue with
regard to the sea otter population and its negative impact on
fisheries in Alaska, which is really, like I said, reaching
crisis proportions?
Mr. Wallace. Senator, this is marine mammal issue on taking
with the sea otter.
Senator Sullivan. It is, and it is also the decimation that
they have had with regard to the fishing industry. But the Fish
and Wildlife Service has oversight and responsibility as it
relates to this issue.
Mr. Wallace. I commit to learning a lot more about this
issue than I know now, and be back to visit with you about it.
Senator Sullivan. Great. Thank you. Thank you, Mr.
Chairman.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Sullivan. Senator
Whitehouse.
Senator Whitehouse. Thank you, Chairman.
Welcome, Mr. Wallace. The Chairman speaks very highly of
you and says that I am probably going to like you. He is a very
honorable man and I appreciate that very much.
You do suffer the catastrophic disability of being from a
landlocked State, however.
[Laughter.]
Senator Whitehouse. But I think your sense of nature and
her beauty is probably animated every time you wake up and see
the glow of the dawn on the Tetons. You certainly do come from
a special place in the world.
I wanted to ask you a little bit about a local issue, and
then an oceans issue. The local issue is that we have a
Blackstone Valley park that has been worked on for some time.
It is still being fully defined. And unlike other national
parks where you start with basically a big empty piece of land,
you draw the metes and bounds and you say, that is a park now,
this park exists in a very developed environment. It is a
series of specific locations threaded through by the historic
Blackstone River. It runs up into Massachusetts as well.
It has been described as like a pearl necklace with all
these different pearls along the way, and the thread that ties
them together is the river. But it has been through being a
protected area, it has been through being a national protected
river, it has been through a whole variety of iterations on its
way to becoming a national park.
So it is not an easy thing to run through. There are a lot
of bureaucratic hooks and attachment, there is a lot of stuff
going on. And you have to think about park land in a slightly
new way to adapt it to the existing developed environment this
park will inhabit.
So I am going to need to be able to talk to you about that,
and to get your attention. Because this is not the type of park
you are used to out west, where you come to the gate and there
is the park ranger, and in you go and now you are on park land.
This is a very different idea of how you can make a park work.
And not only are we trying to thread the river through all of
this, we are trying to make sure that the river is traversable
through all of this area, so that there are put-ins and take-
outs for canoes, and for people who don't want to do that, that
there are bike paths that connect all of this.
And all of this is through built areas, and in-built areas.
So it has been a long, long, long, long, long, slow, process I
just want to make sure that you will take a good look at this
when you get in. I want the chance to come and talk you through
what this has been and where we are trying to get, so that you
understand that the command level, the complexities of closing
out this particular park and launching it as a crown jewel of
New England.
Mr. Wallace. Senator, I look forward to working with you,
if confirmed, on this issue. We will certainly know more about
it the next time we see each other than I do right now.
Senator Whitehouse. Yes. Well, thank you, and we will get
together on that.
Mr. Wallace. OK.
Senator Whitehouse. The other issue I want to talk with you
about is oceans. Again, from Wyoming, we are always a little
bit suspicious of landlocked States and how much interest they
will have in oceans. The Department of Interior has a long,
long history of focusing on the west and on inland and upland
issues, without paying much attention to coastal issues. We are
now seeing dramatic coastal changes, driven by sea level rise,
temperature change, acidification, the concerns that you have
mentioned already.
But it makes the coasts a matter of real concern. And I
wanted to let you know that not only is it a matter of really
grave concern, but it is also a matter of real bipartisan
opportunity. Ocean plastics is a critical issue. The Interior
Department website talks about the eight million tons of
plastic waste that gets dumped in the oceans every year. The
President signed Senator Sullivan's and my legislation in a
very, how shall we say, lively Oval Office ceremony. It passed
unanimously in the Senate. It passed on suspension in the
House. We are working on another one that we are hoping will
pass unanimously. Senator Inhofe from Oklahoma has been one of
our key supporters on all of this.
So what I want you to take away from this is a, we are
going to be coming after you on oceans. You need to pay
attention to this. It is not just upland and inland any longer.
And b, there are big, big bipartisan opportunities for you to
help lead and to support in this area. We are often a divided
committee. On these oceans issues, acidification, plastics, sea
level rise, coastal wetlands, there is enormous potential.
Seize the day.
Mr. Wallace. Again, this is an area, as you noted, I am
from a landlocked State. But I am certainly aware of the issues
that members like you in the coastal States are grappling with.
I look forward to learning a lot more about what we are doing
at the Department of Interior, the opportunity for
partnerships, coastal resiliency issues. Thank you, I will be
smarter on that one, too, the next time I see you.
Senator Whitehouse. And some day, Mr. Chairman, we might
even change the name so it is not just the Department of the
Interior.
[Laughter.]
Senator Whitehouse. There are some edges that count too.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Whitehouse. And
heading to one of those edges, welcome back, Senator Sullivan.
Senator Sullivan. Mr. Chairman, thanks again. Mr. Wallace,
I just want to reiterate what my friend, Senator Whitehouse,
mentioned. There is a great opportunity, we will be introducing
our Save Our Seas 2.0 legislation here soon, where we think
there is a great bipartisan opportunity. The President and the
Administration are really engaged on these issues. And it is
actually an environmental issue that is solvable. Estimates are
anywhere up from ten rivers, five countries in Asia constitute
over 80 percent of the plastic ocean waste in the world.
So there is a lot we can do. Senator Whitehouse has really
been the leader on this in the Senate. He and I have been
working together the last several years on it. We want to bring
you in on that. It is a great area of bipartisan cooperation
with everybody on board, industry, environmental groups, the
Trump Administration, Democrats, Republicans. I think we
should, as he mentioned, seize the day. So we will have a good
opportunity to talk about this in our followup meeting
tomorrow, I think.
Senator Whitehouse. And I would just commend the Chairman
and the Ranking Member for their bipartisan engagement on this
issue as well. It has really been terrific.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Whitehouse.
Senator Braun?
Senator Braun. Thank you. I have a bill that proposes that
we take a defined inventory on the maintenance that is required
on Federal properties. Indiana Dunes is now a national park. It
was up there a few weeks ago. One of the original homesteads in
that area, which was used by the State, it has fallen into
disrepair, several million dollars' worth of cost.
What is your opinion on the need to size up to see what the
cost is? It is maybe estimated $15 billion to $20 billion, no
one really knows. Do you think with an asset base that large,
that we ought to have an inventory of what the maintenance
needs would be?
Mr. Wallace. Senator, again, having not been down to the
department yet, it is one of those issues that I would like to
take back to the professionals down there to see how they are
thinking about this issue. You are certainly, your question
makes a lot of sense. You ought to know what you are trying to
fix before you go fix something. Just on the surface of what
you just told me, it makes eminently good sense.
Senator Braun. I would like you to keep that in the
consideration. Once the process is concluded and you are there,
I would like you to keep that in mind. Because I think it is
important, that is a huge figure. We need to know what it is
and then start tackling the problem. Thank you.
Mr. Wallace. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Barrasso. Senator Carper.
Senator Carper. Mr. Wallace, as I mentioned in my opening
statement, Delaware is real proud of, not of the fact that we
were the last State to have a national park designated, but we
were the first State, Delaware was the first State to ratify
the Constitution. For seven whole days, Delaware was the entire
United States of America.
And we opened things up, we let in Maryland, Pennsylvania,
New Jersey, and I think it has turned out all right most of the
time. But our national park actually focuses on Delaware's
historical, the arrival of the first Swedes and Finns to
America, in Delaware, the Dutch presence in Lewes, Delaware.
The last, I believe, the oldest standing house in America is in
Lewes, Delaware. William Penn came to America in New Castle,
Delaware, brought with him the deeds to what ultimately became
Pennsylvania and Delaware. And the Constitution was first
ratified in Dover, Delaware on December 7th, 1787.
The National park in Delaware actually tells part of the
history of our Country through the eyes of Delaware and through
those sites and places in Delaware that I have just mentioned.
The National Park Service has identified a location for a
visitor center at the park, but has not yet committed to move
to design and construction. The park is also in need of
additional signage and a deer management plan. I would just ask
you, if you might be willing to come and visit, if confirmed,
to visit our State and take a look at our park and some of what
we are really proud of, and also some of our needs.
Mr. Wallace. Senator, I would be honored to do that. Thank
you for the invitation.
Senator Carper. You are welcome. Thank you for the answer.
Mr. Wallace. It is a yes, it is a yes.
Senator Carper. Next question. The Trump Administration has
reassigned, I am told, several dozens of senior executive
service employees. Some of these employees were outspoken,
apparently, on climate change. A number of the reassignments
have been perceived as retaliatory. Rather than accept
reassignment, several of these dedicated public servants
ultimately left the department.
As Assistant Secretary, would you be willing to provide to
Congress detailed information about the rationale behind any
future SES reassignments upon request? I am not asking about
past, looking back. Not retrospective, but in perspective.
Mr. Wallace. My sense, Senator, is that there would be a
lot of privacy information. But again, I am not down there, I
am not aware of, I am certainly aware because of the news about
the SES issues. I would tell you personally I value greatly the
SES people that I have run across during my time in government.
I just don't know enough about this issue to make a commitment
one way or the other about it. I am sorry, but I don't.
Senator Carper. All right. Then I am going to ask, would
you commit to protect career staff at the Department of
Interior, moving forward, and to bolster their expertise
instead of suppressing it?
Mr. Wallace. I am sorry, could you give me that question
again, please?
Senator Carper. Would you commit to protect career staff at
the Department of the Interior, and bolster their expertise
instead of suppressing it?
Mr. Wallace. I absolutely would. I am a big believer in the
SES program. We have seen the caliber of the leaders that have
come through, both in the Fish and Wildlife Service and the
Park Service, they are just the tops. So I am a strong
proponent of that. I also want a pipeline in place, so if
somebody moves on, retires, takes another job, there is a bench
to come in and fill behind them of equally capable people.
So yes, sir.
Senator Carper. Thank you. And one last question. People
travel from around the world to view birds and other wildlife
at our two national wildlife refuges that sit right on the
Delaware Bay. Bombay Hook is one of them, and the other is
called Prime Hook. These special refuges employ less than a
dozen people, and they have hundreds of acres, cover hundreds
and hundreds of acres. But they employ less than a dozen
people. The staff works hard to maintain the refuges and makes
sure they remain accessible to the public.
Among other important positions, our refuges have a visitor
services coordinator and a law enforcement official. As the
Trump Administration continues Department of Interior
reorganization efforts, would you commit to us today that
refuge employees, like Delaware's, will not lose critical staff
as a result? And how will you work with refuge managers and
project leaders to make sure their staffing needs are met?
Mr. Wallace. I would be able to answer this, Senator
Carper, in a general way, but also with a commitment, if we
make that visit to the national park together, maybe also talk
more and see more about the issue that you just raised with me
personally. But we need motivated men and women in the National
Park Service and the Fish and Wildlife Service that get up
every day and whistle while they go to work.
Senator Carper. Like we do here in the Senate.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Wallace. Exactly. I will do it in my job, if confirmed.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Wallace. So the health and well-being and the training
and the morale, there would be 3,000 people under the Assistant
Secretary for Fish and Wildlife and Parks, who are all going to
be an important priority to me in terms of their training and
their morale. I will be happy to learn more about the people in
the refuge system that you just spoke of.
Senator Carper. We appreciate your answers. We probably
have a couple of questions for the record, and if confirmed, we
look forward to welcoming you, and perhaps your family, to the
First State. Thanks very much.
Senator Barrasso. I want to thank you, Senator Carper.
I do have a letter of support for the nomination of Rob
Wallace from the National Wildlife Refuge Association. It is
from Geoffrey Haskett, he is the president of the association,
who writes, ``We believe Mr. Wallace has the background,
experience, and leadership abilities to perform in an
exceptional manner in the position of Assistant Secretary.'' I
ask unanimous consent to enter this letter into the record.
Senator Carper. I object.
[Laughter.]
Senator Barrasso. Then I have 40 more. And they are
wonderful letters----
Senator Carper. I don't object.
[Laughter.]
Senator Barrasso [continuing]. of over sportsmen,
environmental, and conservation groups have written in support
of the nomination of Rob Wallace. These groups universally
praised Rob's work experience, his knowledge of our Nation's
public lands and wildlife. And I ask unanimous consent to enter
these into the record.
[The referenced material follows:]
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Senator Barrasso. And speaking of whistling your way to
work, I noticed joining us in the back of the room is Kathi
Wise, 40 years worked with Malcolm Wallop, worked with you as a
member of the staff of Senator Wallop's team. Remains a stellar
employee, whistles while she comes to work every day, really a
treasure of the Senate. I just want to know if she has always
had that kind of dedication and hard work and such character
and credibility, or is that something you instilled in her as
she was working with you as Malcolm's chief of staff? Or has
that always been a part of her life?
Mr. Wallace. It is a legacy issue, Senator.
[Laughter.]
Senator Barrasso. Thank you for being here, thank you for
bringing your family and so many friends. The opportunity for
other members to put questions in for the record, we ask that
they submit questions for the record by Thursday, June 6th,
close of business. The nominee should respond to the questions
by June 12th.
I want to thank you and congratulate you, thank you for
your time and thank you for your testimony today.
Congratulations.
[Whereupon, at 11:23 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
[all]